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TooSerious Discussions – What to do about Rucks.

Time and time the question comes up- What the heck are we suppposed to do about rucks this year?

Never before have we been this spoiled for choice in the rucks. It was lock in Cox and the flavor ruck of choice, and it’s gangbusters from there.

This year, we’ve a great supply of premium rucks to chose from, all with their unique downsides, and nice handful of bargain rucks- who as with all players returning from injury, look to carry their own risks.

Tonight we have myself, lucas and last years SuperCoach Chris weighing in on the discussion over the break.

(And read the post under this one for a league update as well as a brand new FREE competition!)

So, it’s a tough topic tonight, so I think I’ll weigh in first.

When Lucas first raised this as a topic to discuss, my initial plan was to mock up a gag dartboard, complete with each of the “choose-able” rucks displayed, and Port Adelaide’s Daniel Bass on the outside- It’s just that hard a topic.

Sadly my mad skillz in paint aren’t quite as mad as I had hoped and that gag will never see the light of day.

The good news is that you’ll get a serious response from me.

Now, I figured the two ways to take this discussion is to discuss the three viable rucking strategies available.

Firstly, let me say- those of you with the plan to run with two bargain rucks and a prayer- I wish you guys luck, I don’t think I would ever have a cajones to do such a thing. Plus I definitely see better value in mid-priced players in every other position. Though if you do do it, either plan to start with Tippett, or look to upgrade to Petrie in that forward line!
- The players from this category I would count as Ottens, Hille, Naitanui, White, Seaby, Mumford, Leuenberger, Warnock and now Skipper

Next, we come to the Set and Forget. Here we have two premiums *hopefully* batting out the entire year for you. I say hopefully because we all saw what happened last year in the rucks! This strategy, there isn’t much to fault. It’s the safe option. Even if one of your rucks was to suffer in scoring from reduced TOG or a new team, or a ruck returning from injury, or some young upstart improving, you’re sure to find yourself scoring well with the escape plan of easily being able to trade out into another ruck.
- Premium rucks of choice include Cox, Sandilands, Clark, Jolly, McIntosh, Ryder, Tippett, Kreuzer and Brogan (Sorry Fraser :P ).

However, it’s the third option that is most intriguing for mine, One premium One Bargain.
For starters, you limit your risk on both fronts. You get your pick of the premium Rucks and you also oget your pick of the mid-ranger. However, when the time comes along to upgrade (Whether through price-peak or injury) – Suddenly, you have incite into which of the premiums haven’t fallen over as so many rucks tend to do!

Well, that’s the theory anyways. :D

Next up, Lucas

There are a few options I am considering at the moment:

First it would be the simple tried and true of a super-premium Sandilands and a very solid Kreuzer. The danger with this combination is that it costs a lot and does not allow me a heavily premium midfield to go on a “whacking day” in the first few rounds against people who have loaded up with rookies.

To do this it may need either Hille to be installed into R2, or potentially to play Warnock in R2 but use Lobbe in R4 to allow a Tippett forward line player into the role. This would allow Tippett to be the future R2, or upgraded to Petrie later in the season.

Warnock would have to show me more to take that R2. Leuenberger is also on my radar but to be honest has never impressed me. At least in his Freo career Warnock looked to have the goods.

So it’s either Sandi-Kreuz, Sandi-Hille or Sandi-MPP. These are my three options currently.

And finally, Chris

So there are generally 2 options in the rucks….a premium strategy, or a premium/undervalued strategy. This year sees the introduction of a new strategy, being MPP. So lets look at the advantages/disadvantages of each:

Premium Strategy : As the name suggests, this would be safest, highest points accumulating strategy. You would be thinking 2 of Cox, Sandi or Clark here. VERY expensive strategy, but pretty much guaranteed 200+ points from your rucks every week which is invaluable. If one of your rucks goes down, you have a back up aswell, because you simply pick up the other premium that you decided against (money permitting of course) only requiring 1 trade (hopefully). The downside is obvious, the money. Is that money on the 2nd premium better spent elsewhere?

Premium/Undervalued Strategy : So you pick up your premium, which in years passed is always Cox. This year a bit more thought needs to go into it with Sandi closing quickly on Cox, and Mitch Clark having a super 2nd half of ‘09. This is the strategy I personally adapted the last 2 years with ‘08 seeing Simmonds and ‘09 being H-Mac. This allows you to spend that saved $200-250k elsewhere which is perfect. This year there would again seem an obvious undervalued ruck in David Hille. There is also talk of a more expensive, undervalued ruck this season being Kreuzer. Less risky than Hille, but of course more expensive. So this is a risky strategy as the undervalued ruck is generally returning from a knee injury, and we all know thats not good a thing. If you trust the 2nd ruck tho, this is the strategy to go.

MPP : The only 2 options here to start are Petrie and Tippett. Petrie is missing the first few games, so he’s a no-no and Tippett can still deliver games of 30-40. Neither of these are premium, nor undervalued, so i can’t see too many people having an MPP starting ruckman. Different equation on the bench though. Everyone knows the ruck bench should have as few dollars there as possible so it should be 2 rookies on your bench. If we stick in Lobbe of PTA, we have a little bit of flexibility if we then choose Tippett as a forward. The MPP debate has raged for many a week, so i’m not going into detail, suffice to say the MPP bench player is a strategy I’d suggest lots of people will be taking on this season.

Personally, my thoughts on rucks are set and forget so 2 premiums is the obvious choice. A slightly riskier option would be premium/Hille. If Hille plays well and scores u a 70+ average then this is clearly the best option. Can you trust Hille though?

And that’s it- three fairly solid opinions on the ruck situation. Hopefully you can take something out of this that will help you in your situation!

And don’t forget the MPP option! Even if it’s a matter of saving one of your forward line for a Petrie upgrade- Rucks have always been a minefield of players not playing 22! Don’t leave yourself with a donut in the rucks because you didin’t plan ahead!

(Also, keep in mind that this was mostly written prior to this weekend- I just kept dragging my feet on posting it! :D )

128 Responses to “TooSerious Discussions – What to do about Rucks.”

  1. Ben says:

    Roberts only kicked one goal in the game against Geelong in the first half.

  2. wiggles says:

    how much of a lock is trengove for a mid rookie. At the moments i have gone with 2 starting mid rookies, waters at D7 and either Hitchcock or rockliff at F7 but i have not got Trengove in the mids at all, is this crazy?

    (the 4 mid rookies i have are Martin, Shuey, Banner and Barlow)

  3. Ben says:

    Trengove imo is currently the best player to have come out of the national draft last season. He has senior footy experience as he has played (and occasionally dominated) in the SANFL. I think it would be somewhat of a mistake to dismiss him outright at this stage. The one concern I have is that he will be playing in a weak side that probably wont win many games again this season. Definitely ahead of Scully at this stage however.

  4. chris88 says:

    Benny – I heard somewhere that Chapman moved into the midfield later in the game … maybe that’s where he got a bit of possession – and maybe Farmer didn’t go with him.

    Roerts’ scores are interesting – maybe some goal assists or other “intangibles” helping he SC score along

  5. Nick says:

    Any further news on Balla after the scope, Walesy or anyone? Is it def just a 1-2 week injury? Was looking good for F6 instead of JZ and Medhurst. Chances for Round 1?

  6. walesy says:

    Nah, nothing from me- still due back for round 1 I believe.

  7. Neo170 says:

    Is there anywhere where a complete listing of all the MPP exists?

  8. walesy says:

    Heya Neo- Follow this link, it’s a comment by Lucas. :)
    http://tooserious.net/?p=710&cpage=1#comment-21681

  9. Neo170 says:

    Thanks mate

  10. willy says:

    ok my team is about done just a little problem, $1mill left 3 players to pick 2 rucks and a 1 forward at the moment fwd line is roo buddy hall rok jz and woneaemirri with rockliff and podz on bench one more fwd? with 2 rucks??????? have warnock and lobbe as r3 r4

  11. walesy says:

    So you’ll be looking at 1 premium and 2 mid-pricers.

    For your premium rucks, I would be looking at Sandi, Clark or Jolly.
    You mid-range rucks, I would look at Hille, Naitanui, Kruez or Tippett.
    And for the forward line, it really depends on how much you’ve got left to spend. :)

  12. simon says:

    Attention Chris88 and anyone. I would love some opinions/ critisism on my adjusted team below. Some weeks ago I posted my team and have made some adjustments. I really want to go to the next level. I’ve won 3 supercoach leagues, last year the recent. Two years ago I got as high as 21 overall but by years end I came 800 and something. Would really love to make top fifty by years end or win the freaking thing like all of us!!

    I want to get off to a cracker and grow but I need to know Who am I missing and who needs to get out?
    Def. possible inclusion; S. Gilbert, S. Goodwin, B.Goddard….I don’t know maybe I have enough!!

    Mids. I’m happy with but maybe I’m tooo top heavy. I just figure that I would want Swan in my team eventually so I might aswell save a trade.

    Rks. With your very insightful opinions on the rucks Chris and Lucas I think I’ll go with these two but if you think I’m too top heavy I’m happy to go with Hille as R2. R3 and R4 are up for debate. I have tossed around Skipper and Charman and Warnock.

    Forw. I’ve had Buddy in and out like you know what. I can’t decide. Alot of people on here have a liking to R. Gray so I have taken that onboard and have watched his NAb games and I see what people are saying. I am a bit worried about the Medhurst but he could be dew.

    I have 3 teams in 3 different comps But I feel this will be the one that will get me to lofty hights! Please tell me what you think.
    d; Enright, 2. H.Shaw, 3. Fisher, 4. Hodge, 5. Ladson, 6. Greenwood, 7. Maguire,
    8. Farmer, 9. Davis,
    m; 1. Ablett, 2. Swan, 3 Mitchell, 4. Griffen, 5. Trengove, 6. Martin, 7. Barlow,
    8. Shuey,
    r; 1 Sandilands, 2 Jolly, 3. Currie, 4. Lobbe,
    f; 1. Riewoldt, 2. Higgins, 3. Gray, 4. Hall, 4. Dangerfield, 5. Medhurst, 6. Rockliff,
    7. Rohan, 8. Dennis-Lane,

    Regards

    Simon

  13. Benny says:

    Who’s your other forward?

  14. spud says:

    I wouldnt mind betting he had another prem in there, quite possibly buddy from the way he was talking. Having said that, having a quick lock at the money hes got elsewhere it might only be another value player…i think…2 prem rucks, expensive midfield, 4 prem backs, with 1 rookie in each forward and back + 2 mid rookies, id think thatd have to be a midpricer for that missing forward spot?

  15. spud says:

    oh…duh…thats 30 players. he has two #4 forwards :D and to think i had to recreate his entire team in supercoach to figure that he had $9,200 left and must’ve had 30 players

  16. Tylo says:

    Simon, I reckon if you can get Waters into D7 your lookin pretty good imo. Dunno if Goose will score enough to be a starter.

  17. Benny says:

    haha :) I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw “8″ forwards and made the mistake :)
    I like your structure but I’d have different players in there myself. Each to their own though so it looks pretty good.

  18. simon says:

    Thanks Fellas.

    Benny- who don’t you like in that forward line? Who would you recommend?
    Should I get Goddard in there? I just think he might drop in price then I’ll have a crack at him.

  19. spud says:

    Goddard looked pretty good tonight. I was of the theory of wait and pick him up when he has his odd low game, but now whats starting to concern me is if those low games don’t come until half way through the season, or even later as by then you’ve lost out on a lot of potential points down back. Furthermore, there’s no guarantee that his ‘cheap weeks’ will coincide with the peaking of another midpriced backman.

  20. Richard says:

    Spud with so few gauranteed locks in forward and defence I am of the opinion you get them from the start. Players like Hurn and Shaw are the ones you trade for pending their form/price during the year. Btw, good win doggies. Couldn’t help but smile everytime BBBBBH kicked a goal and the doggies fans thought they were in heaven.

  21. jb says:

    They are until Bustling isnt having such a good game and someone pushes the right buttons and BAM! His kicking for goal and chasing for tackling was really impressive. Rodders would be happy even if fingers toes and legs are crossed. Rewards for Risk…

  22. Benny says:

    Simon you’re players are good. There’s a few who I don’t rate but majority of people do so I can’t talk bad about any of them. Good structure so it’s looking good.
    Your forward line is very solid.

  23. Stew says:

    Simon, I’d prefer to have ziebell in your f5 position over medhurst. I think meds can go missing for long streches of the season, while ziebell should be more consistent playing in the middle. Medhurst did have a good preseason game against st.k (100), but he was playing on a rookie (miles). I think ziebell has more upside…..
    Looks like a strong side though

  24. Stew says:

    One other thing about ruck selections….
    At the moment I have sandi and kruz at R1 and R2, but wondering why I haven’t seen anyone considering renouf $249 as a cheap R2. I know he has had injuries, and isn’t a massive scorer, but he will get big game time this year before the others return, which he hasnt had before, by which time an upgrade should be possible. Is there any other reason he isnt being looked at?
    I also think leuenburger $245k will take over the number 1 ruck spot at brisbane at some stage during the year….. he is looking increasingly sharp, and they secretly love his game up there….. could be worth keeping an eye on

  25. marcus says:

    Does anyone think P. Dangerfield will come on this year?

  26. Benny says:

    I read in one game Brisbane had Clark Leuenberger and Patfull at the centre bounce. Voss said we should see it used during the year. Sounds pretty good for the talls that they’ll get a run in the middle even if not playing the ruck role. Though I think Patfull was to be used in a tagging/run off hurt on rebound type of role.

  27. walesy says:

    Stew, you’re completely right. It is what turned Clark into a premium scorer. I would be interested to see his figures in R4 of the Nab.

    Still, it’s a pretty gutsy pickup though! But could definitely work.

  28. Stew says:

    Not sure on the stats for renouf, but he had 80% game time, which shows some durability, and the hawks discussion boards are very pleased with his ruckwork. Has a good leap, which should ensure a few taps.
    I’m starting to believe the 170k I can save from kruz to renouf could be better invested in my backline…. you have to roll the dice once in a while….. keeps it interesting