Having read thru this rounds banter, the discussion has popped up again regarding the fixture & final series. No harm in discussing it I say, even ifthis subject does pop up every year. In fact, that's the reason it should be discussed! FIXTURE From what I can see, everyone agrees that each team should play each other once. Right, that's 17 rounds of a H&A series. Done. FINALS We have a 'pick em' final series (never been a fan although - never been in it either haha). 1 thru 4 choose 5-8 to play against. This format was chosen it seems as we are confined to a three week finals series & the top teams deserve a reward, rightly so. Thus we have 17 Rds, 3 bye weeks, 3 weeks of finals....equals 23 rounds. Simple enough. A true finals series however is 4 weeks....... (highest ranked team picked as the winner for illustration purposes) Week one, round 20: 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3 - loser gets double chance (top 4 reward) 5 vs 8, 6 vs 7 - loser eliminated Week two, round 21: Loser 4 vs winner 5, Loser 3 vs winner 6 Week three, round 22: winner 4 vs 1st rd winner 1, winner 3 vs 1st rd winner 2 Week four, round 23: winner 1 vs winner 2 - grand final Problem is that we need ONE more round for this to happen. Which goes back to the 3 week bye rounds. Simple enough no? We play one round over the bye rounds, top 10 players is your score for the Rd. The byes generally comprise 33% of teams missing a week. We have a 15 man team, so just make it 10. And those 10 are selected post round. ie....your top 10 scorers of the round comprise your team. Could not be fairer to all teams..............And voila, we have an extra week to go forward and have a 4 week finals series LADDER Sitting at the bottom, have never really paid attention to it But noticed yesterday that it is sorted by wins, followed by points for.....huh? If we all play each other once, why isn't % the deciding factor for teams on the same number of wins ? Seems ridiculous to be 'points for'......and cant think of a league anywhere in the world that has that format. Anyway, I'll pop my head back in now. snoz
You're loving discussing ORFFA lately, hey Snoz As I posted in the other thread, I don't really think its fair to discuss this again now. Almost everyone gave feedback on this last season, and from what we've seen so far yesterday and today, it seems that a lot of the views are largely unchanged from last time. Its not fair to expect everyone to have to state their argument all over again when a decision has already been made. Since that decision, we haven't even played the finals series yet. I realise I started it! Haha, but I've already apologised for that so many options were explored last year and all were considered and weighed up, and a compromise decision was made. Lets sit with that for a bit. ... On the ladder, I do not really have a preference, but I lean towards % too; however points scored does make more sense We have no way of affecting how our opponents score, so % is not relevant. Id be fine with it either way.
Discussions are fun, and its what makes ORFFA more hands on, more of a belonging. (I kicked butt in SC this week and had no one to tell....that's why ORFFA exists for me - ongoing banter, conjecture & discussions. As for not fair or not a right time to discuss, not sure why. It has no bearing on this year at all.....as you stated, you brought it up so I figured I'd create a thread for it, to discuss ad nauseam over the next few months, no biggie.The Hoppersand9other teams are done after this week so where is the harm ? Its to talk about next year- can we not do thatuntilthis year is over? The off season gets quiet, I've seen cobwebs in the forum in December. Seems to me that whilst we are allhere now, we can talk about anything ORFFAN, whether it be this year or next. Ifmembers don't feellike discussing then they don't have to.
I was actually wondering whether we should not even discuss it over the offseason. Your comment about people not having to join in if they don't want to is partly the problem.Almost everyone gave feedback on this less than 12 months ago and a decision was made based on that feedback. Raising the topic again, so soon, could be seen as trying to wear people down. I highly doubt that's what you're up to, and it wasn't my intention, but persistence in this case is not fair, especially on those who are in favour of the current setup. As mentioned earlier, we haven't even had a finals series since the last decision. At this stage, we've only really got some late-season dead rubbers that could influence our views. And it was only to point them out that I raised the topic. It was naive of me not to realise it would spark debate. I didn't intend for it at this stage, and I've already apologised for raising it.
I hope my comments here in this thread aren't perceived as accusational or anything similar. I'm not intending for that, and also, in no way am I an authority on this! I don't even feel that strongly about it, but it wouldn't seem that way... I think. i do also agree that it's fun to discuss ideas, and I generally welcome debateetc. just reading over my comment now whilst I'm on my way home from work, it seems like it could seem to be unnecessarily heavy... And I don't want it to be. Peace
[span style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times New Roman;]Peace my arse........ease up Ant. I'm pretty sure that I can discuss/post anything I like whenever I like. If an Orffan responds, great. If they don't, that's great too. History tells us that silencing individuals is not pretty. I don't always agree with other Orffan postings.....but I never begrudge them the right to free speech. [span style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times New Roman;] [span style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times New Roman;]As its stands, only you have responded to my post (and not about the details of it, but the right to post it). Its cool with me that others don't want this discussion, that's every Orffan's right & I have no problem with that. Doesn't mean I have to stay silent if I have thoughts onthe Orffa structure.......... /Portals/0/Users/184/64/1464/Free-Speech-Zone-Map.jpg]</img>
I feel the need to post, meaninglessly, tis done now & I am well succored I liked Fitzy's idea last year, play 2 rounds in one, there is zero reason why it couldn't be done then, but plenty now, not least of all is our official team entry and scoring system, the same thing that currently wouldn't prevent your idea gaining wings sNoZ. We have a system now, sometimes they are liberating, but more frequently they are limiting..
I don't have any hugely strong feelings one way or the other on the finals structure - but if it can be done (and that means running an extra round during the year) then having a finals series built like that of the AFL would make sense to me. Two considerations at my end though - one (as noted above) - how we actually go about getting that extra round into the fixture. For that we'll have to wait until the AFL fixture comes out to see how their so-called 'boffins' (not a patch on our ORFFA fixture boffins) handle the issue. Second consideration is this - would there be an issue with holding the ORFFA grand final in the final week of the AFL season given an increased likelihood that some teams may well be resting players during that week. Last year's grand final was hit by a servere case of Ross Lyon-itis which affected both teams. Now, that wasn't the final round, but it was 'form' for Ross given previous examples where it had occurred. My concern would be that staging our GF in the last week of the AFL season might see a number of teams pull a limited version of Ross Lyon-itis and rest good players either because teams' seasons are over, or to freshen them up for the finals. If that impacted on the ORFFA GF, that'd be a bit sad. They are my thoughts, I guess.
Simonoz wrote: [span style='font-family: 'Times New Roman'; color: #000000;]Peace my arse........ease up Ant. I'm pretty sure that I can discuss/post anything I like whenever I like. If an Orffan responds, great. If they don't, that's great too. History tells us that silencing individuals is not pretty. I don't always agree with other Orffan postings.....but I never begrudge them the right to free speech. [span style='font-family: 'Times New Roman'; color: #000000;] [span style='font-family: 'Times New Roman'; color: #000000;]As its stands, only you have responded to my post (and not about the details of it, but the right to post it). Its cool with me that others don't want this discussion, that's every Orffan's right & I have no problem with that. Doesn't mean I have to stay silent if I have thoughts onthe Orffa structure.......... Man, you can do or say whatever you want, nobody can stop you. I was just suggesting to have some consideration, but I'd hate to dissuade engagement in general, cause I love this part of the game, discussing ideas, making group decisions ]etc. ]i guess I felt partly responsible for this starting back up, and I think I totally got CRs point in the other thread and i felt like I shouldn't have raised this whole issue. Anyway, I'm not sure if I should write more or not and I'm almost off the bus, so I'll leave it there.... ]
I actually find it hard to comment on this topic, because i think my opinions are looked at like some privileged rich kid deciding what toy he prefers. I do think however the aim should be to emulate the AFL as much as possible and this is what the fixture committee tried to do. Top 8? check. Second Chance for top 4? cant fit it in so lets give them a choice of opponent. Everyone plays once? Check. I totally agree with CR's view in the other thread, while the setup might not be ideal for anyone (I would much rather a second chance lets be honest!) that having this conversation every year is sort of pointless. I reckon if we voted on it we would end up with the same system again once everyone had all the options in front of them. If this system favours anyone its teams 7 and 8 as with a double chance top 6 they wouldn't even make finals and the top few would be even more advantaged. FWIW I voted for a top 8 as I like the idea of more teams in the finals rather than a top 6 double chance which would have benefited me more. Can we just see how this finals series goes first?
According to this: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-reveals-snippets-of-2015-draw-20140807-101cpu.html, there's only going to be one bye next year. Maybe this might influence our thinking.
chris88 wrote: According to this: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-reveals-snippets-of-2015-draw-20140807-101cpu.html, there's only going to be one bye next year. Maybe this might influence our thinking. Technically there was only one this year, the other was a split round, hopefully the fixture can give us an answer, if not we are almost certain to do as we have done I suspect..
chris88 wrote: I don't have any hugely strong feelings one way or the other on the finals structure - but if it can be done (and that means running an extra round during the year) then having a finals series built like that of the AFL would make sense to me. Two considerations at my end though - one (as noted above) - how we actually go about getting that extra round into the fixture. For that we'll have to wait until the AFL fixture comes out to see how their so-called 'boffins' (not a patch on our ORFFA fixture boffins) handle the issue. Second consideration is this - would there be an issue with holding the ORFFA grand final in the final week of the AFL season given an increased likelihood that some teams may well be resting players during that week. Last year's grand final was hit by a servere case of Ross Lyon-itis which affected both teams. Now, that wasn't the final round, but it was 'form' for Ross given previous examples where it had occurred. My concern would be that staging our GF in the last week of the AFL season might see a number of teams pull a limited version of Ross Lyon-itis and rest good players either because teams' seasons are over, or to freshen them up for the finals. If that impacted on the ORFFA GF, that'd be a bit sad. They are my thoughts, I guess. Last year's final was in the last round of the AFL season, Chris. Lyon rested the 8 or 10 players and the Dockers got belted by the Saints at Etihad. So I guess it's already impacted an ORFFA GF. Not sure how that can be avoided, tbh.
JC wrote: chris88 wrote: I don't have any hugely strong feelings one way or the other on the finals structure - but if it can be done (and that means running an extra round during the year) then having a finals series built like that of the AFL would make sense to me. Two considerations at my end though - one (as noted above) - how we actually go about getting that extra round into the fixture. For that we'll have to wait until the AFL fixture comes out to see how their so-called 'boffins' (not a patch on our ORFFA fixture boffins) handle the issue. Second consideration is this - would there be an issue with holding the ORFFA grand final in the final week of the AFL season given an increased likelihood that some teams may well be resting players during that week. Last year's grand final was hit by a servere case of Ross Lyon-itis which affected both teams. Now, that wasn't the final round, but it was 'form' for Ross given previous examples where it had occurred. My concern would be that staging our GF in the last week of the AFL season might see a number of teams pull a limited version of Ross Lyon-itis and rest good players either because teams' seasons are over, or to freshen them up for the finals. If that impacted on the ORFFA GF, that'd be a bit sad. They are my thoughts, I guess. Last year's final was in the last round of the AFL season, Chris. Lyon rested the 8 or 10 players and the Dockers got belted by the Saints at Etihad. So I guess it's already impacted an ORFFA GF. Not sure how that can be avoided, tbh. Ooh, correct you are JC. That Ross-itis issue was bloody awful. I agree that it might be hard to avoid as well, but maybe just something to think about.