Up You 2

'i wouldnt say 'thats it' Collective action will almost always come out on top if there were enough dissenters willing to do something about it. I would hope that it wouldnt come to that though. And I'm not even suggesting that I would necessarily feel strongly enough to block a decision TiB may or may not make about this. Just merely suggesting it does not have to be the final word. Too many people feel that way in this society. NOT this ORFFA society btw.' Collective action, as opposed to collective bargaining, is revolution. In the 50's in America you could be hung for it. Now we just nuke you. And what is the result of collective action? You end up being run by a dictator or fascist whose first act is to silence all the dissenters who put him there in the first place. People who propose collective action do so on the premise that people can be persuaded, no matter the issue. However, in a democracy, you elect your own leaders. You may not get the leadership you had hoped for, but you still have the option of tossing them out at the next election. In the meantime you suffer their policies and dictates. Protest if you will, but removal by collective action is simply revolution and history has shown that fascists use revolutions to enhance their own ends, while the dissenters are left to rue their poor choice. In ORFFA terms, the simplest way to demonstrate dissent through collective action is for anthak to call for a vote of no confidence in the Commissioner. We will address the question of de-listing prior to the mid-season draft once we have had a thorough look at the history of how certain decisions or non-decisions were arrived at. Considerate of people to toss these crackers into the fire when we are trying to run a draft.

 

Alright, I have had a look out the back and all I can say is debate on this issue is spread over multiple threads. To summarize as best I can; de-listing 2 players prior to the mid-season draft is compulsory if you have not already de-listed 6. If you de-listed (say) 5, prior to the current draft, you must de-list 1 more prior to the mid-season draft. The squad of 26 principle applies. If you have already de-listed 6 or more, you are not a participant in the mid-season draft. The above came about in response to some coaches who felt that 6 was too many to de-list at one time. So we split it 4-2, but that was the minimum. It could easily be 6-0 or 5-1. Feel free to collectively act on this.

 

TerryinBangkok wrote:
'i wouldnt say 'thats it' Collective action will almost always come out on top if there were enough dissenters willing to do something about it. I would hope that it wouldnt come to that though. And I'm not even suggesting that I would necessarily feel strongly enough to block a decision TiB may or may not make about this. Just merely suggesting it does not have to be the final word. Too many people feel that way in this society. NOT this ORFFA society btw.' Collective action, as opposed to collective bargaining, is revolution. In the 50's in America you could be hung for it. Now we just nuke you. And what is the result of collective action? You end up being run by a dictator or fascist whose first act is to silence all the dissenters who put him there in the first place. People who propose collective action do so on the premise that people can be persuaded, no matter the issue. However, in a democracy, you elect your own leaders. You may not get the leadership you had hoped for, but you still have the option of tossing them out at the next election. In the meantime you suffer their policies and dictates. Protest if you will, but removal by collective action is simply revolution and history has shown that fascists use revolutions to enhance their own ends, while the dissenters are left to rue their poor choice. In ORFFA terms, the simplest way to demonstrate dissent through collective action is for anthak to call for a vote of no confidence in the Commissioner. We will address the question of de-listing prior to the mid-season draft once we have had a thorough look at the history of how certain decisions or non-decisions were arrived at. Considerate of people to toss these crackers into the fire when we are trying to run a draft. bahahahaha.... My comment wasnt taking a pot shot at you Terry. Sorry if it riled you. I only just wrote a day or two ago about how much I thought you were doing a great job (I hope you were able to read that). No issues from my end about any of that, so there is no way I will be claiming I have no confidence in you!! And I hope that others dont feel that way, as I feel very positive about this league with you at the helm I was just concerned that after several people had spoken out about how they would not want the 2 picks to be mandatory, that someone else would jump in and effectively say that all those opinions dont matter because you, TiB, may decide that the delistings are mandatory, 'and thats it.' Now, I would presume that would not be what you would do, as I have not seen a tendency of that sort of behavior from you as yet.... I would have presumed that you would take on board the opinions of the other coaches before making such a call anyway. And, if you see my earlier comment, I had suggested that if anyone wanted to change the rule from what we had it last year, that they should set up a thread and try and explain its merits to the rest of us, as there was obviously a lot of dissent to the idea of making them mandatory. I hope that you also noted that I said that I would not necessarily be trying to block the proposal to make them mandatory. this is because, to be honest, I dont really care enough either way. It is my preference that they are not mandatory but with go with the flow if we decide to do it another way.

 

I gotta be honest, if I was the Commish and I decided you all needed to wear green hats, despite everyone else loving blue, if you didn't, I'd chop your head off.[span style='font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.3;]Something to consider in future elections
I almost sincerely apologise for my choice of words, however, given at the same time as I typed it I had twopeoplein my office bringing me new problems to solve, an email every 2 minutes coming in, three half written ones I was juggling, along with working on four different quotations each worth over 1/4 of a million bucks and staring down the barrel of 42 employee evaluations, as well as try and and answer a barrage of questions regarding Far Kew and conduct a draft I actually kinda think you should be cutting me some slack.
My comment was simply to designed to say, if Terry says this is the rule, that's the rule, that's what we elected him for.

 

TerryinBangkok wrote:
Alright, I have had a look out the back and all I can say is debate on this issue is spread over multiple threads. To summarize as best I can; de-listing 2 players prior to the mid-season draft is compulsory if you have not already de-listed 6. If you de-listed (say) 5, prior to the current draft, you must de-list 1 more prior to the mid-season draft. The squad of 26 principle applies. If you have already de-listed 6 or more, you are not a participant in the mid-season draft. The above came about in response to some coaches who felt that 6 was too many to de-list at one time. So we split it 4-2, but that was the minimum. It could easily be 6-0 or 5-1. Feel free to collectively act on this. well, I am partly surprised about all of this comment. Its funny, I was just sharing this thread with my colleague here at work who is sitting next to me - who is also a TS member - and I read out loud the last line of this quoted comment... and another colleague thought i was talking about something else, and she said 'what a c*ck'... 'he's not following the guidelines of procedural fairness at all' haha...

 

All coaches can voluntarily participate in any draft to as full as an extent as they wish, once the minimum criteria has been met.

 

Lenh191 wrote:
I gotta be honest, if I was the Commish and I decided you all needed to wear green hats, despite everyone else loving blue, if you didn't, I'd chop your head off.[span style='font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.3;]Something to consider in future elections I almost sincerely apologise for my choice of words, however, given at the same time as I typed it I had twopeoplein my office bringing me new problems to solve, an email every 2 minutes coming in, three half written ones I was juggling, along with working on four different quotations each worth over 1/4 of a million bucks and staring down the barrel of 42 employee evaluations, as well as try and and answer a barrage of questions regarding Far Kew and conduct a draft I actually kinda think you should be cutting me some slack. My comment was simply to designed to say, if Terry says this is the rule, that's the rule, that's what we elected him for. Yeah, fair enough man. I didnt realise it would blow up into this either but its pretty simple. this league is run and operated by the collective whether we like it or not. without the participation of all, it would not be successful. If we really felt strongly about something, it would be easy for us to make it happen. Whether or not we feel strongly enough about it and how many of us do or do not is the important question. And we all love this league (i presume), and I presume most of us have faith in the Commish to keep it all going well, so I for one, would not want to undermine him with any such action... but that doesnt change my point of view about collective action - which I might add, was not in relation to this specific issue. And I'd also like to add, that TiBs comment - the OP - does not change my view on fascists or democracy. Direct democracy is different to parliamentary democracy as referred to above... and fascists... maybe someone is projecting. .

 

Lenh191 wrote: I gotta be honest, if I was the Commish and I decided you all needed to wear green hats, despite everyone else loving blue, if you didn't, I'd chop your head off.[span style='font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.3;]Something to consider in future elections I almost sincerely apologise for my choice of words, however, given at the same time as I typed it I had twopeoplein my office bringing me new problems to solve, an email every 2 minutes coming in, three half written ones I was juggling, along with working on four different quotations each worth over 1/4 of a million bucks and staring down the barrel of 42 employee evaluations, as well as try and and answer a barrage of questions regarding Far Kew and conduct a draft I actually kinda think you should be cutting me some slack. My comment was simply to designed to say, if Terry says this is the rule, that's the rule, that's what we elected him for. also, i gotta commend you on doing an awesome job with the draft. Ive been meaning to say that all week. I especially am consistently amazed at how quickly you have been updating the OP after each pick. Thanks Len.

 

chels wrote:
Lenh191 wrote:
All coaches can voluntarily participate in any draft to as full as an extent as they wish, once the minimum criteria has been met. Thanks for the clarification Len - that's the way I would have assumed it would be but good to get confirmation.. Thats how i presumed it would be too, but thats not how TiBs post reads, so we probably need an interpretation from the great man himself.

 

Awesome Fitzy

 

Now I'm confused. What does 'partly' surprised mean? My 11 year old ward just wandered in from school and was leaning over my shoulder reading this thread. I didn't actually show it to him, because I don't believe in airing dirty laundry outside of the league. But he just read away until he stood bolt upright and said 'That's all bullshit and that guy's a Richard Cranium.' Of course this totally surprised me. So I said, 'Hush, my boy. Some people in an office somewhere in Perth think your old man is a cock, and surely they would know better than an 11 year old?'His response was that I should show it to Mummy. 'No need', said I, 'She already knows I'm a cock - and so is your Uncle Snoz in Manhattan'. Never one to be silenced easily, he then asked, 'How come this guy can't make up his mind whether he wants to lay vitriol around the place instead of having fun.' I could not answer that one.

 

Aaaah. That feels much better. /Portals/0/User%20Images/hangover.jpg Without getting too much into semantics, I responded on the question raised concerning compulsory de-listing in the MSD. Len, on the other hand illuminated us all on voluntary de-listing. At the risk of repeating myself, squad of 26 rule applies. You cannot enter the MSD if you have a full squad of 26 players. If you have de-listed only 4 to date, it is compulsory that you de-list a further 2. If, however, you have already de-listed 6 and topped up 6, you may so choose to voluntarily de-list further to partake in the MSD. If you do not, then you cannot participate. Better chels?

 

Speaking of prematurely hitting submit, this thread is supposed to be called Up 2 You. As in up to you if you want to de-list more ahead of the MSD. Chels can tell you all about Freud.

 

JC wrote:
anthak wrote:
chels wrote:
Lenh191 wrote:
All coaches can voluntarily participate in any draft to as full as an extent as they wish, once the minimum criteria has been met. Thanks for the clarification Len - that's the way I would have assumed it would be but good to get confirmation.. Thats how i presumed it would be too, but thats not how TiBs post reads, so we probably need an interpretation from the great man himself. Why? Len is currently in charge of all things draft related and he's clarified it. Would've thought that was all that was required. Love your green hat JC.

 

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