So once again we have some contentious calls in forming the All-Australian team, goal of the year and mark of the year.
All Australian Team for 2011:
B: Scarlett, Glass, Enright
HB: R Murphy, Reid, Davis
C: Thomas, Mitchell, Pendlebury
HF: M Murphy, Cloke, Swan
F: Milne, Franklin, Goodes
R: Cox, Judd, Ablett
INT: Boyd, Dal Santo, Petrie, Kelly
Goal of the Year: Ballantyne (Freo)
Mark of the Year: Krakouer (Coll)
My initial thoughts
- Good to have a “Leigh Brown role” player as all clubs have a ruck that plays a dual role these days. Petrie was the best of a bunch that would include players of the ilk of Paddy Ryder and Leigh Brown himself.
- Old Man Bob Murphy lucky to get a game, though if this was a team for a real game, he’d be very handy with his ability to go forward.
- Scotland over Davis every day of the week.
- Scarlett v Gibson a difficult choice but I can understand the selector’s choice
- SJ the most unlucky, had a huge year. Maybe ahead of the underrated Kelly
- The side seems to have too many mids.
- Correct choice of captain. Suck on that Robert Walls.
- The best goal of the year probably wasn’t in the top 3. Personally thought the Judd and Thomas “reverse bananas” took the most skill, but neither in the top 3.
- I have always rated pack marks as better than individual “speckies”. I can understand those who rate Walker’s mark better as the leap was amazing and the camera close up absolutely perfect. Foxtel’s work with the other two left a bit to be desired in comparison. Naitanui over Darling was a bigger leap than Walkers, and took the ball at the highest point of all 3 marks. In the end Krakouer not just took the mark over his head (unlike Walker’s chest), he took it in a pack of 5 and possibly most importantly at a crucial stage of the game, inspiring his team to victory. (Regardless if I’d voted I probably still would have voted for Walker to prove my “unbias”)
Discuss…
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Murphy, Boyd, Petrie, Scarlett all very very very lucky to get a gig over Goldstein, Scotland, Gibson, Stevie J, Deledio. Not saying they dont deserve a spot, but shouldnt have been picked ahead these guys. Also Marc Murphy & Dane Swan on half forward line, gimme a break. Put them on the bench if you want them in the side.
Im just stoked that Milney has finally been recognized and awarded his first AA. Suck on that haters
Nic Nat or Walker mark of year over Krakwhore any day of the week. Ballantyne goal of the year, well out those 3 yes but there was way better goals throughout the year that should have made top 3.
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Walker robbed.
Fisher and Lids robbed.
Thomas lucky.
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Walker should have been in the 40 that’s for sure Hendy LOL!
Swan kicked 31 goals so I think HFF is reasonable for him.
M Murphy 22 goals, but I think he on the wing is better suited.
Fisher was great first half of the year but his last half was average. Probably the reverse of Davis. Hard to gauge what should count for more.
Deledio was good without being outstanding most of the year. Probably didn’t really deserve it.
Gibson and Birchall were very good but probably beaten to a spot by a better player.
I’d have had Scotland in, probably Murphy out, but I would have been willing to debate Davis v Fisher. Yarran had stats that were comparable to Davis which is interesting.
On stats one could make a case for Fisher over Reid.
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This isn’t a bad site to do comparisons on:
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/tabid/73/default.aspx#page=player&year=2011&roundid=0&fixtureid=0&teamid=0&playerids=14083%7C19941%7C14478%7C15522%7C14430%7C20165%7C14625
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Had to laugh when Stephen Silvagni was announcing the half back line on the telecast last night. He said Robert Harvey from the Western Bulldogs instead of Robert Murphy. Everyone in the audience was pissing themselves laughing.
Robert Murphy in the team is a joke. Petrie was very lucky to make it as well. I would have put Goldstein and Scotland into the team ahead of Murphy and Petrie.
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Naturally, as a man of aesthetics I thought Walker was robbed of MOTY. However, given that I rate KB and “Darce”‘s intellect, decision making ability and character on a par with The Geisch’s, I’m not entirely surprised.
Overall though, I’m just happy that everyone in this thread has managed to use the correct tense regarding the term bias. So rare on a football forum.
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Hornsy lucky we have McKay in charge of the MRP then. Great decision making, intellect and character.
For a vet…and a ‘bagger…
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Murphy OUT Scotland IN. Maybe throw a Fyfe in there somewhere as well
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Murphy very lucky, I think Scotland should have got the half back flank. Scarlett ha d agreat year, but perhaps seems to get selected on reputation, Deledio probably unlucky to miss out on that spot. I would have gone for Stevie J over Milney, but you could mount an arguement for either, so… Goldstein or Mumford should have been in front of the Dish, the selectors seem to half pick a team for positions and then half not…
I would suggest even Boyd was lucky to get in, good first half of the year, but a pretty average middle and even end, Priddis would have been more deserving IMO.
Nic Nat was my pick for MOTY, but I am an Eagles man, so thats to be expected, and I liked Thoma’s reverse banana also, and the fact that this year he regularly kicked rippers.
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Petrie…less hitouts than either Vardy or Trent West (less also than Leroy). So probably not in the side as a “second ruck” per-se.
48 goals was pretty impressive, along with 4th most contested marks (to Cloke, the J Pod and McEvoy).
Ryder considerably more hitouts, and a very decent 27 goals for the year considering he spent some of them in defence and the other wandering around like a lost child.
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Milne v Walker…on stats…
Walker had more…
Kicks, Handballs (hence Disposals), Contested Possessions, Uncontested Possessions, Better Disposal Efficiency, (Less) Clangers, Contested Marks, Hitouts, Clearances, (Less) Free Kicks Against, Tackles, Equal Amt of Goals and Better Goal Kicking Efficiency
All this in 2% less TOG
But of course, that’s right Walker couldn’t get in the team because he didn’t get in the top 40 hahaha!
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@Lucas
Touche-ish.
No wait, I’m feeling pugnacious.
Andy McKay, as a vet, is well experienced in making tough, life-and-death decisions. Decisions many others would shy away from. They may not always be right, or fair, but having come from the great club I call Carlton, he hasn’t had much experience in that field either.
Misters Darcy, Frawley and KB, in their roles as chief head-wobblers in the football media are paid to equivocate and change their opinion of the game, and the fortunes of its players and teams, with the passing of every round. These fickle parasites are not the strong men whose hands I want gripping the steering wheel of the MOTY selection decision.
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Sorry Lucas but theres hardly anything between stats with Milne & Walker. Lets not forget Milne finished equal 4th on goal kicking list.
Milne vs Walker
23 - Games - 24
10.0 - Kicks Per Game 9.9
3.4 - Handballs Per Game - 4.6
13.4 - Disposals Per Game - 14.5
4.0 - Marks Per Game - 4.6
2.4 - Goals Per Game - 2.3
1.4 - Behinds Per Game - 1.1
2.6 - Tackles Per Game - 2.6
0 - Hitouts Per Game - 0
2.9 - Inside 50s Per Game - 2.9
0.9 - Goal Assists Per Game - 0.6
3.3 - Goals Contributed Per Game - 3.0
0.8 - Frees For Per Game - 0.7
1.5 - Frees Against Per Game - 1.0
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On those stats, walker should have easily been in team over Milne!
But I reckon mark of year was great choice for krakouer to win.
Scotland and fisher should both have made it in scarlet and reid’s spots IMO
I agree with the neon choice, had a really consistent year!
Also agree with Petrie.
SJ should have made it, prob over Kelly. SJ was one of best players in the league this season… Very unlucky. Murphy should have been on the pine with SJ on his HFF.
Swan in fwd line was alright for mine. He spends a bit of time fwd for the pies, and is good at it.
Very happy Sam Mitchell has been recognized finally with an AA gig!
Can’t believe it’s his first team after so many outstanding seasons!
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As stated earlier, I can see the merit in picking Petrie as a tall forward/2nd ruck option because ALL sides have a player perform this role. Goldstein was very good this season, but can’t be selected in a “team of the year” purely on balance. On the other hand if they are picking a side on balance how can Stevie J not be named on a HFF ahead of Swan or Murphy. Both of these guys deserve to be in, but surely the players must be picked in the role they play for the majority of the year. Disappointed that Gibson did not get in the final squad ahead of Scarlett and Scotland and Delideo should be on the 2 HBF’s easily. Bob Murphy is a quality player (Gerard Healy does have a man crush on him though).
The thing with this team is that they pick it based on the last couple of seasons form. It is very rare for a player to get in based on 1 good season. Marc Murphy and Kelly are examples of being rewarded for 2 consecutive solid seasons. Next year expect to see the likes of Fyfe, Gibson, Goldstein etc. move into the line up.
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Haha, stkT – I was talking about stats Lucas mentioned. Yours paint a slightly different picture. But I still reckon Walker should be in front of Milne. I haven’t got stats to back up, but he seems to have had more consistent season. Correct me if I’m wrong though.
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SKT the old “per game” argument…hahaha…but if you put the average per minute on the ground (due to 2% less TOG) then I’m sure Walker comes out on top
Walker got one hitout to Milne’s zero. I think that’s conclusive proof that Walker deserved AA before him
Doing all this of course to clog the talkback with irate Blues fans.
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MILNE: (22 games in H&A)
0 goals – 3 games
1 goal – 4 games
2 goals – 3 games
3 goals – 7 games
4 goals – 4 games
8 goals – 1 game
WALKER: (21 games in H&A)
0 goals – 4 games
1 goal – 3 games
2 goals – 8 games
3 goals – 1 games
4 goals – 3 games
5 goals – 2 games
6 goals – 1 game
So Milne in 15 of his 22 games kicked 3 or more goals, whereas Walker had 7 of 21 games where kicked more then 3 goals.
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haha Lucas, but isnt a small forward in there to kick goals!!! If we were going on stats with possessions etc etc then Stevie J would get in ahead of both them as he plays midfield….
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Although there were surprises with which I disagreed (eg no Fisher, Judd not capt, Walker not MOTY, Thomas in midfield before Swan and MMurphy) I could stomach most of it except RMurphy for Scotland, which I regard as a worse decision than HarryO from lest year. I think you could argue against Scarlett and/or Enright, but Geelong have been fantastic this year so they had to have some representation. But not so with the Bulldogs, and Boyd was there only standout.
But the real question is why the opinions of Luke Darcy, Demetriou, Anderson et al should count so much more than the rest of the nation. I think it is time that the selection had more credibility, and the only way is to do it on fans votes: I like the NBA method on this (and on the countdown clock, but that is another matter)
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@ Novice while I partly agree with your thoughts on letting the fans decide the All Australian team we never want to get into the situation of the NBA All Star team this year where Yao Ming was one of the starters in the West side even though he had not played a game. All the people from China voted for him, lol
There needs to be some controls in place to prevent this situation from occuring.
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If the fans decided it would be the Collingwood 22.
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StkT thanks. That data could be interpreted many ways, but overall – it looks as though Milne was the more consistent.
But that hitout speaks volumes IMO. Walker the front runner after hearing that.
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Lucas…I think that ‘per game’ stats are quite relevant. I don’t think that an argument should be made against Milne just because he was able/allowed to play slightly more game time than Walker.
I, like most, think that Bob Murphy was the luckiest to make the squad. The selectors seemed to want to get six genuine defenders in there but only three permanent forwards, which I found strange. I would have preferred Scotland/Kelly in that position, with the other on the bench.
I can see the sense in getting as many of the elite midfielders in there as possible, but having Stevie J in the forward line would have added to the believability of the side (after all, we are picking an All-Australian ‘side’, not All-Australian ‘best 22′). With that in mind, I would have had Steve Johnson on a half-forward flank, Dane Swan on the bench (due to byes, Arizona and poor form he didn’t put in a good game from rounds 7-13, a very significant chunk of the season) and Drew Petrie or Boyd out of the team. I think that Boyd has been a better player, but Petrie makes the side more ‘real’ so take your pick on what is more important to you.
As for the Goal of the Year, I thought that Krakouer’s was the best of the ones shown, but overall Daisy had the best for the year. Mark of the Year belonged to Walker in my opinion, but they were all close enough that I don’t really think that any would have been an undeserving winner.
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Novice…There is a serious problem with that system and that is team bias. As the NBA has shown, players who have not had great years (read Yao, McGrady, Iverson – I am a Rockets fan) have made the starting five due to player popularity and an inflated supporter base. Players from teams like North, St Kilda and the Bulldogs would have a much smaller chance of making the squad than their counterparts as Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton if the fans were allowed to pick the squad.
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I would be prepared to trust the fans. Have the ‘experts’ select 40-50 (eliminating the unqualified) then put that squad to the vote.
HRS has the following results based on vote. None of those selected seem to me to be hopelessly wrong, although Cyril scraped into the last bench spot probably on star value (and the quirky voting system for the interchange) rather than performance. The midfield is clearly more appropriate than the official version, and the backline is also better once you count Glass on the bench. Collingwood still get their 6 with Thomas more appropriately on the bench, Saints get 2, including the supposedly unpopular Milne, and the Def/Mid/Fwd ratio is a more appropriate 7/8/7, rather than 6/11/5 in the official version.
YOUR ALL-AUSTRALIAN TEAM
The best 22 of the season as voted by SuperFooty readers
BACKS
Leon Davis (Coll) 15,368 votes
Ben Reid (Coll) 12,756
Heath Scotland (Carl) 10,939
Brett Deledio (Rich) 10,420
Sam Fisher (StK) 9574
Corey Enright (Geel) 8695
MIDFIELDERS
Chris Judd (Carl) 18,781
Gary Ablett (GC) 18,352
Scott Pendlebury (Coll) 18,139
Dean Cox (WC) 17,783
Marc Murphy (Carl) 14,460
Dane Swan (Coll) 13,174
FORWARDS
Lance Franklin (Haw) 18,948
Adam Goodes (Syd) 18,603
Travis Cloke (Coll) 17,696
Steve Johnson (Geel) 14,496
Nathan Fyfe (Frem) 11,230
Stephen Milne (StK) 10,831
INTERCHANGE
Sam Mitchell (Haw) 12,983
Dale Thomas (Coll) 9493
Darren Glass (WC) 8269
Cyril Rioli (Haw) 8236
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As a comparison, Fox’s voted-by-fans team was as follows:
B: Matthew Scarlett (GEE), Darren Glass (WCE), Ben Reid (COL)
HB: Leon Davis (COL), Josh Gibson (HAW), Heath Scotland (CAR)
C: Scott Thompson (ADE), Marc Murphy (CAR), Scott Pendlebury (COL)
HF: Adam Goodes (SYD), Travis Cloke (COL), Steve Johnson (GEE)
F: Josh Kennedy (WCE), Lance Franklin (HAW), Eddie Betts (CAR)
Foll: Dean Cox (WCE), Chris Judd (CAR), Gary Ablett (GCS)
Int: Nathan Fyfe (FRE), Matt Priddis (WCE), Brett Deledio (RIC), Todd Goldstein (NTH)
Again, no shockers, although WCE and ADE may do better because of the more ‘national’ website
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Let’s not make the All-Australian team an Logies/Australian-Idol style popularity contest please folks. Popular voting has lots of flaws and doesn’t guarantee success any more than the current approach does.
Better to focus on the criteria used by the selectors and tweak and refine those in my opinion. I am prepared to back whichever group of individuals is chosen to select the AA squad to do the right thing and use the criteria that are presented to them for selection. So put more thoughts and effort into refining the criteria and that is time and energy more well spent.
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Novice…
If you entered it as a squad it might have looked better:
B – Enright, Glass, Fisher
HB – Davis, Reid, Scotland
C – Pendlebury, Mitchell, Murphy
HF – Goodes, Cloke, Johnson
F – Milne, Franklin, Fyfe
R – Cox, Judd, Ablett
INT – Swan, Thomas, Deledio, Rioli
Rioli the real clanger out of this.
V the real AA Team:
IN – Deledio, Fisher, Scotland, Johnson, Fyfe, Rioli
OUT – Scarlett, R Murphy, Boyd, Dal Santo, Petrie, Kelly
Note – a few here have said Boyd should be dropped from the AA team to fit in someone like Johnson or Fyfe. IMPO he’s an outside chance for the Brownlow, and those who are agitating for his removal could have egg on the face.
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My above comment re Superfooty
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@Jason
I’m the other way inclined. Get better selectors. There’s a number of people on that panel who I just don’t rate, who the cynic in me says, are just there as part of the ongoing (ex)footballer/media boys club.
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@Lucas
As my Western Bulldogs review will say, I concur on Boyd and this year’s Brownlow. Boyd finished equal 6th in the Brownlow last year and is 2011 was actually better than his 2010 performance.
@Hornsy
If the criteria for the panel are specific enough and the panel is unbiased (even if a little too media-centric) and folowing the guidelines set out for them, that is in my opinion the way to create the least margin for error.
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I think the AA team is based on the best team to play an actual match, as such I have no problem with Swan and Murphy in the fwd line or Petrie as a versatile back-up ruck.
To me the big omissions are Johnson(clearly the best small/medium fwd) and Fisher.
Bob Murphy in the team is the obligatory joke selection to create discussion.
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Enjoyable debate guys.
Cant believe Balla got GOTY!? Was a good goal for sure, in a tough game at a crucial time in the game, but heck GOTY??
As a freo supporter im happy for him but the decision baffles me a bit.
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Steve Johnson not getting a game is inexcusable.
By far the best non-key forward this year.
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On Scotland and Deledio vs Murphy…
I think Scotland and Deledio have spent fair slabs of their year as midfielders, and have been classified as such.
Murphy has been included as a more pure defender, which is fair enough in some ways, but the fact that SJ has been ignored up the other end doesn’t really make that idea hold up to any decent scrutiny.
On the stats, Murphy has had much more rebound 50s than these two other options (and Fisher/Birchall), meaning he was playing deeper.
Mind you on stats I see Hanley, R Shaw and Yarran as being comparable to Murphy. The one I’d like to see is goals conceded though, which is a subjective and somewhat difficult one to attain given the zoning that takes place.
I’d be fairly convinced that Murphy had a tougher opponent to play on than the three aforementioned, but Morris does get more of the tough jobs, as did Markovic for a few games, so I’m not certain on that one either.
Murphy is an elite disposer of the ball, and had less clangers than most. Hanley’s turnovers no doubt cost Brisbane goals, and probably games. In future I can see Hanley cleaning these up and becoming better – being an Irishman, he’s on a significant learning curve.
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Glass out- Gibson In
Petrie out- Stevie J In on half forward flank while Swan is moved to bench
Goodes as second ruckman as he was a ruckman during his earlier career
Goldy also in the team as a back up
Enright to HB flank, Scotland other half back flank, Davis back pocket, Thomas is out of the team as he was the worst of all 11 midfielders in the team in my view
If there was a sub i would have put Goodes there as he can play in most positions and move Stevie J down to the pocket and Swan to HF flank.
Still think there are too many mids, 10 out of 22 players in the team can be classed as mids and even a few more, too many. a real team would be a lot more balanced.
My team is as follows:
My All Australian Team for 2011:
B: Scarlett, Gibson, Davis
HB: Enright, Reid, Scotland
C: Mitchell, Dal Santo, Pendlebury
HF: M Murphy, Cloke, Stevie J
F: Milne, Franklin, Goodes
R: Cox, Judd, Ablett
INT: Boyd, Goldstein, Swan, Kelly
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Gary…
So you are going in with an additional ruckman. Not sure how many sides can get away with that this year, without an extra string to their bow.
Can’t agree on Glass. If Gibson comes in he is in for Scarlett or a small. Glass and Scarlett are enough to handle most teams.
Scotland by the stats played mainly as a midfielder. I would not class him as a defender as he may have played at Carlton in the past. His SC positioning was a little misleading, and his midfield work was strongly increased from previous years.
So in terms of “balance” you get rid of Old Man Bob Murphy who got the most rebound 50s, and replace with another mid or a ruckman. I don’t really agree, as Old Man Bob was great one-on-one, the best defensive % efficiency, and maybe able to swing forward if needed. I think his year’s been underrated (probably his SC points haven’t measured up!)
Thomas, yeah I agree, hard to gauge his year in the Pies team. Probably a bit lucky to make it given the opposition. I personally think he has had a slightly more exciting year than Kelly; just depends on what sort of player you look for.
I would certainly have had SJ in my team. Petrie for SJ makes sense if you have Goodes who can give Cox a chopout.
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