Walesy said it in the main thread and it has been accepted as well loved: <blockquote>Alright guys, I’m sure that Sainters get’s the message, however, I do think we need a better method of, well- offering constructive feedback. What I don’t want to see happen is for a culture of attacking the man to take over, which would then foster an environment where new people wouldn’t feel safe in joining the conversation with the concern that they “weren’t serious enough†to be talking. Looking at the situation, I see that people have been getting annoyed at how Sainters has been commenting over the last few weeks, and without a way to mediate that, it’s boiled over to what we saw happen over the weekend. Perhaps I should open the PM’s up so that anybody can then discuss these kinds of issue outside of the public space- but then, the reason I don’t have them open in the first place is because I don’t want there to be personal attacks going on behind closed doors. So maybe I should put myself forward to mediate in a situation like this? Rather than letting ones feeling build up over time to the point where you have to lash out and have a crack at a bloke, perhaps word me up on the issues first? Let me know your concerns and I’ll facilitate a dialog between the various parties. Cause I like this place, and I like the discussion and I really don’t want to see the high level brought down, it does take people a while to catch on to what level we’re at, but the bitching brings it down just as much as anything else. So yeah, now that we’ve shared our feelings and our cycles are all in sync, let me just say- woohoo, up to 210 this week! </blockquote>
I was involved in the chat over the weekend and also probably one of the first to pick up on the high volume contribution to the forum from Sainters, sometimes not saying a lot. My sixpence worth is that the long-term future of TS will always be dependent on a new generation coming through. Sainter freely admits he is still going to school and has shown a willingness to apologize when called out. Doesn't hesitate to say so if he doesn't understand. He is hyper on the keyboard and he is keen. I say we embrace him as one of our own. The other side of that sixpence is that TS always needs to be on the alert to maintain the high quality standards that make it the best thing going. For this to be achieved I think we have to ask Sainter to make a few small adjustments, much as suggested by Impromptu. Acceptance on the site is not determined by volume of posts, but more by quality of the post. I confess that I sometimes overdo the chat (it's the beer!!) but hope that it is considered in the context of fun, particularly when a game is a bit slow. This site offers the best advice you can get for SC and my advice to Sainter would be to use that advice to your own advantage instead of trying to overly contribute to it. You have a pretty good team and are going okay, but there is still heaps you can learn from this site. The less you post, the more people will listen and be willing to respond, particularly in the area of trades you are considering and captain's choice. If you see a forum topic that is relevant to what you are doing or one of your players, jump in by all means. We in turn will do our best to make account for youthful exuberance. The reason I called this post 'The Kid' is because Sainter in many ways reminds me of Billy. A Super Coach fast draw. It was not meant to be derogatory. If he applies as much enthusiasm and work to school as he does to SC, pretty soon will be running the country. As always, from the heart. Apologies to anyone offended.
Dont take this the wrong way but is it necessary to make a entire thread about it that everyone can see? Surely Walsey, Jo & the mods can talk to Sainter behind the scenes and then let everyone know if there is any issue and if it has been resolved... I have had no issues with Sainter and any of his posts. The one thing i have noticed is that it seems people just log on and give thumbs down to everyones posts. So you really cant read to much into it.... I just think this thread really goes against what Walsey said in his opening paragraph <blockquote>Alright guys, I’m sure that Sainters get’s the message, however, I do think we need a better method of, well- offering constructive feedback.</blockquote> Just my 2 cents anyway. Just think any suggestions to adjustments should be done away from public viewing. Otherwise think it doesnt look good to the site, especially as some discussions can get ugly when trying to ask people to change their ways....
I agree with what you are saying SKT and at the same time think what TiB has done is a good thing. Both of you are 'Waaaay too Serious' and spend a lot of time on the site which highlights your input. I too spend a lot of time, maybe not as much as you both, and it could be very easy to miss the constructive & negative elements of what has happened recently so to highlight it with an inquisitive title such as THE KID will allow the curiosity of us all to look, read and evaluate what has been said. It isn't only one person, there are many who if having read this and other comments from the Mods will hopefully reconsider the relevance of their posts. Lucas posted somewhere recently what is recommended and when to post on the Blogs and if members want to discuss other ideas then the forum is a perfect place for this. I too think that the whole thumbs down thing that has been going on is crap and despite making Walesy's life a bit busier, contacting him, or other Mods for that matter, is the way forward as the site continues to grow. Everyone has different levels of patience and I'd hate to think people didn't feel comfortable visiting the site because they weren't aware that their manner of communication wasn't pleasing to everyone sitting behind their keyboard. If I could I'd thumbs up to both of you.
@SKT, Think your 2 cents may have topped my sixpence, but from reading through the thread on the front page I got the impression it was already out there in public. There was a big push for 5,000 and my guess is we have to accept what comes with that, no reflection on Sainter. I was quite surprised by some of the strong words in the chat which caused me to think there are probably a lot of other younger members out there who are perhaps just a bit less vocal, so it is not just Sainter. It is the broader question of things like Ben and etiquette on the site where rules are not laid down and there are bumps to be experienced for those just signing on. Certainly accept resolving issues behind the scenes is preferable.
He's OK, has some decent insight at times, just needs to read his post back to himself before hitting submit. It's the over-enthusiastic off topic and multiple posting that is the issue, not an attitude adjustment like for Ben last year. Introducing an edit option could help, and not just Sainter either - plenty of us come back to what we have posted and want to change or add something. The preview post option improved this, but taking it a step further would reduce multiple posting.
I wasnt in chat so not sure what happened in there. All im worried about is that whatever is written in here could be taken the wrong way from Sainter or whoever. Just talking from experience from on TrueSainters when we did a similar thing and it turned into a right old mess, but no need to go into that Maybe Walsey could come up with some guidelines & forum rules in regards to posting. Then can post it as a thread on main page and everyone can see it clearly for while.. (even if you can turn off the comments in that one or something) Then its clear who is stating it all and if anyone has any issues can talk to Walsey directly... Honestly im not even aware of anything like that, but that might be as i havent looked for them :milhouse:
Wasn't around for the weekend chat so would be good to know what peoples problem with Sainter is? Are people generally having a go at Sainter because he had too much input? Really surely I'm missing something
I was in the chat for a few games on the weekend and didn't notice any strong language, maybe I missed it though. Saw some tension but this whole thing seems to be blown way out of proportion to me
I was in the live chat quite a bit over the weekend, and apart from a short burst of repeatedly posting "Dane Swan is on steroids", I had no issue with Sainter or anything that he posted. I asked him to desist or take it to the BigFooty boards and he immediately did. And we all moved on. I think Sainter has made many a good contribution generally to the live chat and I'm happy to have another tooserious member to discuss my weekly footy fix with. I think there is a bit too much thumbs down action in general to be honest.
i was pretty annoyed that he was trying to "put the moz" on all Collingwood players haha but otherwise never had a problem with him
The enthusiasm of youth! Makes me feel old, ha! It was me that made a quip about all the hidden comments in the 'R14 Teams' topic without realising there may have been background to it all. Have since exchanged messages with Sainter and can say he's a good lad who just loves his footy. In saying this, I like the idea, for instance, of keeping trade talk to the end of the week, say in the 'Teams' discussion, but I'm not sure how you could monitor/enact it (and it could mean more work for admin). If the wash-up from all of this means discussion is more succinct, then we are all winners. One more thing, let's not leave our sense of humour at the login page
<blockquote>Quote from Quiche on June 27, 2011, 21:57 In saying this, I like the idea, for instance, of keeping trade talk to the end of the week, say in the 'Teams' discussion, but I'm not sure how you could monitor/enact it (and it could mean more work for admin).</blockquote> That's what the thumbs are for Community moderation FTW
Well, I can tell you that "The Kid" drew me in, to see what this was all about. I'm almost never involved in the chat, but in my opinion any issues should be sorted out there and then - the more things drag on the bigger a problem they become. I too have noticed Sainter being very vocal over the last week or two - as long as he's not abusing anyone, and is just clogging up the servers, is it really such a big deal? People display passions in many different ways, and maybe he's just really passionate right now (or maybe he's had some personal problems recently, and TS is a good place to let off some steam?). I don't know the answers, but sitting on the outside looking in, it appears as though he's upset a few people recently, and now there's lots of discussion about how we as a community can control things in the future. Sainter - if you read this mate - I get the impression everyone wants you to calm down just a fraction... Everyone's here for the same basic reasons - to share their love of footy and SC! Don't be over-bearing, just participate like everyone else, and we'll all get along just fine! While its nice to have a "high status" and "ranking" whenever possible - its often more about quality than quantity. I often find that its best to just sit back and read what everyone else says, make a comment when I feel its necessary, and enjoy the experience! Since I'm in Chile, thats my 10 pesos worth, which is about 2 cents!
i was in a chat a bit over the weekend (well quite a bit actually) and Sainter was a bit voluble at times. However, when I asked him politely to desist from shouting he did - fine by me. I thought we had some fun and he was gracious, albeit a bit excited. Well done m8. I made a comment in chat which was possible out of order. Lucas gave me a "steady on" and that was the end of it. No recriminations - business as usual. Different people behave in different ways. Let's encourage participation but ensure everyone is aware of the standard "we" expect as guests of Jo and Walesy here at TS. For mine rather a light handed, helpful approach than a heavy handed set of rules. I am new here but always feel welcome (thank you). As a newbie I needed a bit of guidance and help in understanding the place and I got it. Lets do the same for Sainter. regards chels
Trying not to post a comment on here but have been reading through for the advice, @JPK and others, no personal problems just I think I get over-excited for small reasons and post my trade advice requests in the wrong section and too early in the week which would be annoying you, sorry for saying the "Swan on steroids" part in the chat.
yeah i liked ur posts recently can tell u put some thoughts into it - maybe u should start ur own weekly column sainter on Speed