I was planning on continuing running my team next year as normal as i did draft it with the future in mind. I havent entered a team for most of the end of this season because i lost all interest in fantasy AFL. The major problem i have is having to enter my same team week in week out, if i havent entered a team that means i want the same team used as last week but i still have to come on and enter it. I dont know what TiB is referring to with 'memories of the draft' i was online every day and sat through the entire process, apologies if some people have to work TiB. With this latest incident of trying to give away my team without even trying to contact me, well as far as i'm concerned you can stick it. Good luck with it, i have no interest in being in a league with TiB.
I'm out too! I'm not happy at all about the way BL has been treated. Not only this situation, but the failing memories of the draft; There was one day that BL was sleeping when it got to his pick and people were waiting a few hours and he has been put over the coals for it. It was literally a few hours, but seemed worse as most others were online at the time. I was online a lot throughout the draft and I personally think there were plenty of others that were worse than BL at being nearby when it got to their pick. I came across this thread tonight and couldn't believe what I was reading. I haven't been able to be around near as much over the last couple of months, so I haven't been reading all of what's been going on, but I think it's really bad form to boot someone out without hearing from them. I was advocating harsh penalties for not fielding a team, but I didn't think it would come to this. I was thinking more along the lines of being demoted in the draft order. Setting a deadline of 3 days to get back to a pm or they're out is ludicrous when the list management for ORFFA teams doesn't really fire up entirely till 2013 - more than 3 months away. Then when BL did respond, I'm bemused at how many people chose to interpret it as though he was not interested when he specifically wrote he wanted to continue on in 2013 FWIW, I forgot to field my team a few times near the end of the season too, and entered it after lockout each time; 1 time I was really late. I think the teething problems this season should have been considered. If we had have started at the beginning of the season, then we would have had a finals series and it may have been more interesting near the end of season, which may have led to everyone fielding teams. I have also read a few times the suggestion that a selected team should carry over from round to round. This is a simple solution to avoid zeros, and I think this should be implemented next season and that coaches shouldn't be shown the door for misdemeanors this season when we had a possibly floored system in place. Anyways, I'm not happy with the treatment of BigLance and I'm pulling out of this league as well. I had drafted for the future as well and I was really looking forward to the coming years. It's been a lot of fun! Although I was already considering whether I wanted to continue or not anyway, so this thread makes my decision easier. I'll still be hanging around TS a bit, so I'll see you all around the traps. And I will continue to manage the team until a suitable owner can be found, including updating my team page at some point with all the B&F votes etc. It's been a lot of fun over the season and I'd like to thank everyone for how much everyone contributed! It's a shame that a few incidents have tarnished season 1 of the ORFFA tbh as it's a great concept.
Lance, The simple act of giving up, not entering a team week after week, is what we are talking about. Regardless of where you were in the standings, participation is ALL we ask of anyone. You chose not to participate because the simple act of entering a team each week was a burden. No one would care if you didnt join the forums, its participating in the ORFFA League weekly....ie, entering a team. I can assure you this is not TiB's doing, this is a collective decision. Public Leagues allow you to float in & out ~ try or give up. Private Leagues need 100% participation, EVERY week. I apologize on behalf of the other ORFFA coaches if you find this distasteful, but you really gave us no choice.
Anth....this is a private league, all we ask is 100% participation (1 minute a week to enter a team) From my recollection, this was voted on & passed unless I am mistaken? Perhaps 'no choice' was the wrong verbage, but I know I voted that continual lack of entering a team is the same as pulling out of the league, that was his choice.
Yeah, I suppose if there was a predetermined ruling set than there could be "no choice," but I didn't know of any such rule myself.
Anth, I had not seen your large response above when you commented on BL, I apologize. As for """a predetermined ruling set""", I believe that by merely entering a Fantasy Football competition then it is predetermined that you will actually enter a bloody team each week.....herewith fulfilling the original obligation of playing Fantasy Football. On the 9th Sept, Terry asked ALL coaches to vote on both BL & X: CR yes/tentative yes Fitzy yes/yes Len yes to X, no to BL Bandit on the fence Prap yes/yes JB yes to BL Chris yes/yes Andy yes/yes Chels yes to X and tentative on BL Terry then restated that he would reach out to BL ONCE he had heard from the majority of coaches, which he did on the 10th. On the 11th BL stated that he had lost interest but that he would still like to play next year. This was reviewed by four coaches, chels,Fitzy, Len & myself.....who all observed it as out; right or wrong, an admission of lost interest is in itself just that, no interest in playing. I personally do NOT want you to resign; you & I have conversed often over the years and have always thought that you were a good guy. Please try to understand that ORFFA can & will only survive if ALL coaches participate.....not when they feel like, but every week. They dont have to be sluts in the forums, they dont have to vote, but they do need to participate weekly. There is NOTHING personal about this at all....its a newborn league trying to establish itself with willing participants is all. I will add that if you read BL's post above and mine, they differ greatly. I speak of participating weekly in a league, he just blames Terry. That in itself speaks volume to me.
Anth we may have been being a little harsh in only giving BigLance a few days to reply or else he is out, but he didn't enter his team 4 times, that is 4 times that someone else gets an automatic win, which effects the ladder, therefor affecting the draft. He didn't tell us why he wasn't entering his team. And now he has told us, but it's not a very good excuse, just because he lost intrest in it. I personally want an active keeper league, a competetive one, and more importantly one that will last for a few more years to come. We need intrested people for all of those things. I don't want you to resign either, because if I remember correctly you were a great help at the start of all this, but if you don't have the time, or you think that next year you will not be able to commit to entering a team each week. Than maybe you should 'resign'. Just my opinion...
<blockquote>Quote from Simonoz on September 12, 2012, 03:26 Anth, I had not seen your large response above when you commented on BL, I apologize. As for """a predetermined ruling set""", I believe that by merely entering a Fantasy Football competition then it is predetermined that you will actually enter a bloody team each week.....herewith fulfilling the original obligation of playing Fantasy Football. On the 9th Sept, Terry asked ALL coaches to vote on both BL & X: CR yes/tentative yes Fitzy yes/yes Len yes to X, no to BL Bandit on the fence Prap yes/yes JB yes to BL Chris yes/yes Andy yes/yes Chels yes to X and tentative on BL Terry then restated that he would reach out to BL ONCE he had heard from the majority of coaches, which he did on the 10th. On the 11th BL stated that he had lost interest but that he would still like to play next year. This was reviewed by four coaches, chels,Fitzy, Len & myself.....who all observed it as out; right or wrong, an admission of lost interest is in itself just that, no interest in playing. I personally do NOT want you to resign; you & I have conversed often over the years and have always thought that you were a good guy. Please try to understand that ORFFA can & will only survive if ALL coaches participate.....not when they feel like, but every week. They dont have to be sluts in the forums, they dont have to vote, but they do need to participate weekly. There is NOTHING personal about this at all....its a newborn league trying to establish itself with willing participants is all. I will add that if you read BL's post above and mine, they differ greatly. I speak of participating weekly in a league, he just blames Terry. That in itself speaks volume to me. </blockquote> I agree 100% with this, stated much better and more calmly then I would do it.. This statement lost me, I had voted that BL should be given more time, but once he stated that it wasn't life pressures keeping him from fielding a team but just lack of interest, I lost interest in arguing for him... Be sad to see you go ant, but if that's what works for you fair enough. "Lost a lot of interest in fantasy after the bye rounds, i was planning on doing this again next season. Do as you will."
BL wont work with Tib, so thats easy he is out and Fitzys mate is in. Stuffed the league around a bit giving away 4 wins due to laziness anyway. Anth is out, IMO a decision but easily replaced as I am sure plenty of posters would enjoy the honour of competing in the league.
Anth I wish you would reconsider. I think you read this and have taken it as some personal attack on BL. Seems like BL seems to have a personal dislike of Terry but thats only just come out. I think the majority of coaches, myself included, have nothing against BL at all but were simply disappointed with him dropping out of the league for 4 weeks and stuffing up a bunch of results in what was a pretty good opening campaign. I think if he had come back 'sorry gents will lift my game in 2013' or 'my bad wont happen again' or anything of the like most would have been quick to embrace him back into the comp! But his response reeks of uncaring apathy for a league a lot of us care greatly for in only its first year. Anyway there has been enough negativity here lately. BL is out. Anth I hope you reconsider. Either way ORFFA is moving forward bigger and better.
So when TiB put it to the vote, 6 out of 16 coaches said yes to kicking BL out? (not including TiB and BL) I would think that with a decision such as this, majority would have to be the absolute minimum requirement for a motion to pass, but in reality, I personally would rather consensus be the requirement for such a large decision - but we all know thats not how Terry does things. I shouldn't have been surprised that this term would be King Henry VIII -esque So 6 out of 16 and then this thread was made... After 1 (or 2) days of votes?? Surely the rest of us should be contacted to provide input when someone's team is on the line. This is a significant change to our league; we're talking about 1 of ORFFA's founding members. Thanks for your kind words guys about not wanting me to drop out. Tbh, I don't really want to, but as I said up above, I was already considering it anyway. I just can't give it the time that it deserves. Sure, I would probably field a team each week, but I would prefer to let someone else have the franchise that could contribute more than that in 2013 and hopefully beyond.
Sorry, had not read previous 2 comments before that one when I posted it... And I don't have time to respond right now, sorry - not that they really require a response. But thanks Chris
Just quickly, if the decision had not been so rushed, and there was due consultation and a large majority (or maybe just 50% voted in favour of ditching a coach, then I would fully support the move and would happily go with the group decision; I may be wrong, but it seems to me that all three of these things did not occur, so I personally feel BL has been shafted and my solidarity lies with him.
<blockquote>Quote from Bandit on September 10, 2012, 11:37 I am not a fan of pulling the trigger on Big Lance just yet... however there are critical periods coming up. Can someone reach out to him to see if he is around?</blockquote> Just to be clear I was a no to pulling the trigger on BL... unless he didn't respond. He has responded. However, like Len, if he can't be arsed then so be it. That is this issue out of the way from my side.... however there is a bigger issue now As far as I am concerned, every club has equal voting rights on everything. If you don't vote, then it is treated as an abstain and the majority of remaining votes determines the decision. The bullshit (and it was bullshit) that happened during the draft with forced picks was not ideal. It screwed up the Chief, and a few others like myself, but not massively. I was given a forced pick after being away overnight. I said I would be back at twelve, I ran a little late and logged on at just after one to note that I had a forced pick... and it seems that similar timeline pressures are at work here, even though there is actually not that much that requires an incredible amount of urgency? We are all in agreement that we want an active league with active participation from the coaches. However in my opinion this is not to be measured on the amount of posts people put up, how many views peoples threads have or any of that crap. It is to be measured by the activity of the coaches at various points of the season. That means for mine : * Entering in a team every week, or getting somone to do it for you if you can't for whatever reason * Voting on changes to the rules, new franchises, new coaches etc * Participating in other key moments like the draft/trading within REASONABLE timeframes. For mine the definition of reasonable is 12 hours... you just need to log in each morning and night... but that is up for debate. Decisions made without the majority agreement of the league will fracture this league beyond repair, and we are starting to see cracks now. However, if we can all agree that everyone has equal vote, and that majority rule carries after abstained votes are out, then we have something to work towards. In summary, I think we need to agree some basic voting rights and timelines before this all goes down the plughole.
Sorry guys I should of voted but didn't, probably didn't think it was as important as it's turned out to be. My point of view is when I do the results each week it is pretty deflating seeing all the 0's, I don't think a lack of interest is a good excuse. It takes 1 min to enter a team and that can be done at any time during the week and updated on a Friday if you have time. While it is not a nice thing to do kicking people out of leagues I would of voted yes and yes. BL did get back to TiB by Friday so really the choice was his whether or not to continue. Whilst he said he was happy to continue he didn't seem very enthusiastic so I guess that raised alarm bells with some. To blame TiB is a bit harsh, I personal don't know the bloke but he has pretty much single handedly keep this league going which is why we voted him in as commish. Just my opinion take it or leave it.
It is surely a good thing that I get beat up by Hornsy so often. You quickly learn not to take things personally. For the edification of the group discussion, here is, verbatim, the text of my message to BL. You have already seen the reply: G’day Big Lance, I’m just getting in touch to reassure everyone about your commitment to ORFFA. I note that you failed to enter a team on 4 separate occasions and on each occasion, failed to offer a reason/apology. Your 4 opponents were not happy as all wished to compete against a team instead of getting a bye. The ORFFA has thus decided that draft penalties will apply. However, before we go further down that road, I would just like to give you the opportunity of an explanation and a reaffirmation of your commitment to the league. We have important drafts and delistings coming up and the greater group cannot be held up by someone who is not active and online. Please let us know mate, we have until Friday 14th before we have to reach a decision on what to do with your franchise. Cheers, I have stated with some clarity that my view (singular, as a coach) is that BL's response is both a yes and a no. As Commish, I have also stated that BL has until Friday to clarify his position and offer good reason why he should remain and that you, dear coaches also have until Friday to offer comments, views and a dash of vitriol. I confess I am in ongoing discussion with potential new coaches. As Sticks would say, that is my job. But no firm decision has been taken either way and won't be until Friday. However, if we can all agree that everyone has equal vote, and that majority rule carries after abstained votes are out, then we have something to work towards. That has always been my understanding Bandito and is the umbrella under which I, albeit precariously, sit.
<blockquote>Quote from Bandit on September 12, 2012, 10:51 <blockquote>Quote from Bandit on September 10, 2012, 11:37 I am not a fan of pulling the trigger on Big Lance just yet... however there are critical periods coming up. Can someone reach out to him to see if he is around?</blockquote> Just to be clear I was a no to pulling the trigger on BL... unless he didn't respond. He has responded. However, like Len, if he can't be arsed then so be it. That is this issue out of the way from my side.... however there is a bigger issue now As far as I am concerned, every club has equal voting rights on everything. If you don't vote, then it is treated as an abstain and the majority of remaining votes determines the decision. The bullshit (and it was bullshit) that happened during the draft with forced picks was not ideal. It screwed up the Chief, and a few others like myself, but not massively. I was given a forced pick after being away overnight. I said I would be back at twelve, I ran a little late and logged on at just after one to note that I had a forced pick... and it seems that similar timeline pressures are at work here, even though there is actually not that much that requires an incredible amount of urgency? We are all in agreement that we want an active league with active participation from the coaches. However in my opinion this is not to be measured on the amount of posts people put up, how many views peoples threads have or any of that crap. It is to be measured by the activity of the coaches at various points of the season. That means for mine : * Entering in a team every week, or getting somone to do it for you if you can't for whatever reason * Voting on changes to the rules, new franchises, new coaches etc * Participating in other key moments like the draft/trading within REASONABLE timeframes. For mine the definition of reasonable is 12 hours... you just need to log in each morning and night... but that is up for debate. Decisions made without the majority agreement of the league will fracture this league beyond repair, and we are starting to see cracks now. However, if we can all agree that everyone has equal vote, and that majority rule carries after abstained votes are out, then we have something to work towards. In summary, I think we need to agree some basic voting rights and timelines before this all goes down the plughole.</blockquote> +1 from me. Would love for you to stick around too Anth. Thought that you have been a constant voice of reason on a number of the issues we have faced thus far.
I know I am not part of ORFFA/L but shouldn't everyone be in agreeance with the rules that have been set up? If there are problems, I am sure someone can massage the rules around. ORFFA/L is meant to be entertaining for everyone involved so if people are still enjoying it, they should keep there place shouldn't they. (I know that this is a shallow view from an outsider but it's my two cents)