Rules Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'ORFFU' started by JPK, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's a little thread for us to discuss potential rule changes, that just like the AFL, we'll promise never to alter during a season, but we'll implement after the mid season break but before the finals, because there's absolutely nothing you can do about it at that point.

    I was going to call this thread the Master Rules Debate Thread, but didn't think that'd be appropriate.

    So basically, this thread is here for everyone to propose rule changes, and discuss the merits of any existing or proposed rules. We'll keep a summary of rules under discussion in the opening post, so that they can be easily referenced and tracked in the future.

    Rules under debate:
    1) Being able to trade draft picks that you won't use.
    2) What constitutes a live draft pick.
     
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  2. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    So, the first rule that we need to discuss, that came out of the recent MSD, is the ability to trade a draft pick that a coach is not going to use.

    The scenario was that Pearcedale had MSD14 but didn't have list space to use it. Korumburra made a play for this pick, which was ultimately unsuccessful.

    One of the many questions that came up was whether a trade of a pick that was never going to be used is actually allowed.

    This also leads us into the second rule up for debate - what actually constitutes a live draft pick?
    Are all picks allocated to a team to be considered live, regardless of whether the team actually has list space to utilise that pick or not. Or should the only live picks be the ones that the team has list space to use, and all others are forfeited (not even considered for a trade).


    I'll start the discussion with:
    1) Being able to trade draft picks you wont use
    I'm all for a coach fully owning his draft picks, no matter what the number or available list spaces, and being able to trade them for whatever he wants.

    2) What constitutes a live draft pick.
    As per the above, in my personal opinion, a draft pick is owned by a coach, regardless of whether he is going to use it or not. It doesn't matter if its a round 1 or a round 10 selection, the team / coach owns the pick, and can do with it what he likes.
    All picks should therefore be live, and the only constraint is that during a draft, a team can not have more than 28 players on their list.
    As for future picks, and this is where it becomes a bit iffy by forcing picks to be live (in my opinion), I don't think that it should matter, because your pick is always live. For example, if a coach traded a future PSD R4, and then when we got to that draft he had two R2 picks, he wouldn't need the R4 pick anyway (assuming he has R1, R2, R2, R3 picks). Forcing him to drop a fifth player to make the R4 pick live that he traded last year, will actually make him need to take a pick in R5 because he traded away his R4 pick, and that's just not right in my opinion.

    So, I'm all for trading any pick you have, and I'm all for the pick to be considered live, whether it was going to be used or not.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  3. martyg

    martyg Well-Known Member

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    Are we putting these rules change proposals to a vote? or just discussion first and then the board votes?
     
  4. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    Discussion first, then full vote if required.
    I want us to be able to propose and discuss any and all existing rules and potential rules. We don't need to make changes, we just need the discussion. It'll (hopefully) save us having problems like we did in the MSD, and will allow us to constantly look at improving the ORFFU.
    No - I don't intend on making changes for the sake of making changes (we're not the AFL) - I just want us to be able to openly discuss all ideas, for the benefit of all.
     
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  5. Tomster

    Tomster Moderator Staff Member

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    For the live picks, my view is that all picks are live until the draft starts, and then only the picks that you will be taking can be traded.
     
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  6. fresh

    fresh Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts....

    Pre draft, all picks are able to be traded regardless of list spaces you are going to have available come start of the draft. We see this in other leagues such as NFL, NBA, NHL. I don't like the concept of needing to delist to make a pick live to be able to trade it.

    In my view, a live pick only exists for a draft that is currently underway. All picks that you are going to use in that draft to fill up your squad are live picks. The rest (essentially passed picks) are dead / not live.

    Once a draft starts, only live picks in that draft can be traded. However, that doesn't however stop you from trading picks in future drafts.

    I think we also need to have a think around the rules for in draft trading. We have a rule for needing to delist to a max of 24 players. Is there anything to stop me from trading all my 4 picks for 4 players to get my squad up to 28?
     
  7. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    Rule 6C actually says that teams "must take a minimum of 4 picks in the PSD". So yeah, there kinda is something.
    Read more at http://tooserious.net/forum/threads/orffu-rules.89266/#FYskzYzbHORDwPPJ.99

    I've got no problem with discussing this. I actually like the idea of making 6 list changes in a calendar year - it doesn't matter if they're PSD picks, MSD picks, or trades, just the fact that they're changes. We had this discussion when we came up with the mandatory 4 picks, and the fact that delistmets would count (although they don't technically add to the player pool), because it was more about the player turnover than the player pool. Maybe we can have another discussion about this.
     
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  8. martyg

    martyg Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the view that once the draft starts, if you don't have a vacant hole to fill, then the pick is lost - no trading it.
     
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  9. bryzza

    bryzza Well-Known Member

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    All draft picks can be traded up until the trade deadline.

    Once a draft starts only live picks in that draft can be used to trade.
     
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  10. Batfink

    Batfink Well-Known Member

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    ditto
     
  11. insider

    insider Moderator Staff Member

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    +1
     
  12. eagle_eyed

    eagle_eyed Moderator

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    Yep, this seems fair.
     
  13. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately, the dictatorship of the ORFFU is a kind and inclusive place, so if the majority are wrong, then wrong we all shall be.
     
  14. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd actually like to propose a modification to the minimum list change rule.

    Instead of having a rule that everyone must take a minimum of 4 picks in the PSD, I'd like to propose that in a calendar year (so PSD / PST and MSD / MST), every team must make a minimum of 6 player changes.

    My reasoning is that I think we're going to start hitting a bit of a stalemate where there won't be as many PS trades of players, as we all need to take 4 picks into the draft, so we're all trying to free up (atleast) four spots. If we make it list changes in total, trade or draft, then it gives coaches the flexibility to either trade for someone with some experience, or to take their chances in the draft. Spreading the changes over the MS and PS gives coaches even more flexibility, and might help to increase MSD / MST activity.
     
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  15. bryzza

    bryzza Well-Known Member

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    I like your train of thought, 100% agree ........... coaches get on board
     
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  16. insider

    insider Moderator Staff Member

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    Effective as of ASAP?
     
  17. choppers

    choppers Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine if this comes in, then all delistings, so far listed in the appropriate thread, will be null and void....
     
  18. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    Right now its only a proposal, so lets see what other coaches think.

    If the vast majority agree, then we might be able to bring it into effect for the 2019 calendar year.
     
  19. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    Not necessarily - remember that coaches can still relist their delisted players without consequence.
     
  20. choppers

    choppers Well-Known Member

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    Correct! I should have checked the Rules first...o_O
     

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