Discussion in 'ORFFA' started by Fitzy, Jun 13, 2016.
Post your completed trades in here! Leave discussions to the other thread if you could!!
As noted in the other thread
Darraweit trades: David Armitage, Justin Westhoff, Tom Jonas (pretty reluctantly) and Garrick Ibbotson, as well as the Guim's second round 2017 PSD pick to Lovely Banks.
Lovely Banks trades: The Lilacs 2016 MSD picks #1, #4 and #8, Jake Carlisle (suspended until 2017) and first round 2017 PSD pick.
I'm not sure how I feel about this blockbuster trade.......
Chris trades a 90 ave mid, 85 ave fwd & 2 defs that ave middle of the road 65/60's - and gets back MSD picks 1-4-8 and also what will most likely be one of the top 1-3 picks in the psd - not to mention Jake, a 2016 d/f that averages 70.
Chris has already announced he is out next season.......but I'd take he's position in the trade in a heartbeat.
I have three reservations about the above trade. It might not be a popular view but I feel compelled to express it.
First, I see the difficulty in valuing MSD picks. For example, is (say) Armitage equal in value to MSD pick #1 - I know that is not the trade, I am just citing an example. Second, there is always divergence of opinion over the relative values of younger players versus older players. For example, Armitage at 27 years plus versus (say) a 22 year old who is likely to be a top four MSD draft pick. So there are two reasons why I am unsure about the "balance" in this trade. Perhaps the balance is arguable, but I would not argue that it is balanced. Perhaps others can - if so, I hope they post.
My third and strongest reservation is one of transparency. In the course of replacing foundation coaches we have, at times, relied on close associations. For example, Fitzy introduced Lenny and, perhaps naturally, there are trades between themselves. For this reason (and perhaps other reasons) we have the safeguard of a veto. In business (think ASX) when a transaction is not at "arm's length" it is subject to independent scrutiny. And that is the nub of the problem I have with the proposed trade - if it had been at arm's length would the trade have proceeded? Does it stand up to independent scrutiny.
I do not know the answer. Hence my post. OTY fellow ORFFANS.
PS: Please be assured this is not a personal attack on Jen and/or Chris - it is most certainly not. A review of pm's between us would confirm that. It is about transparency and this was the tipping point for me. If I am too touchy about this so be it. I'll be here and will listen to any criticism.
Here's my thoughts, I believe the trade is loaded in Chris's favour, I don't have an issue with that, I've seen trades that are so far out of whack it's not funny go through, I've even been party to a couple.
Taking the people involved out (and suspect that is the cause of some concern) here's my thoughts on the trade; (Remembering that values are vastly different depending on circumstance and are a subjective topic at best)
David Armitage, Justin Westhoff, probably worth at least PSD and MSD pick 1 respectivey, if not not a long way from it.
So bundle MSD pick 1 and 4 and that's Armo, 8 and Carlisle for Westhoff plus 2nd round psd seems ok, again neither are worse than plenty that have passed
Tom Jonas (pretty reluctantly) borderline useful
Garrick Ibbotson, Complete spud this year, likely delist in the FF, but has history as a solid SC scorer
Better than delisting either I guess if they serve a purpose at LBL
All the above can be argued naturally, this is a subjective game, but I had a good look at the trade last night before stating I had no issue with it.
It also needs t be noted that Jen hardly needs another pick 1 incubating for 2 - 3 years on her list anywhere near as much as guys like Armo, Westhoff and Carlisle..
BTW, I do like the fact that we discuss these things in the open, it's a good thing and not something I'm trying to stifle, I just want to give my thoughts
Maybe the best way to approach this issue is to open up a new thread and invite discussion and opinions. At least then there is a forum for everyone to have their say.
If the idea of a veto needs to be in play, then let's at least discuss it.
I am more than happy to explain the logic behind why I have made the trade (and my belief is that there may be some overestimation of the relative values of at least a couple of the MSD picks and underestimation of the risk of taking on Mr SnapChat Jake Carlisle).
My outstanding issue is this - the issue of transparency is always going to be in play when it comes to certain people, pairs or people or groups of people doing trades in this league. The thing then becomes - how do we address this? Do we need to alter the veto provisions?
Now I don’t normally comment on things and am a very quiet member but feel I need to say something this time.
Have you all really sat down and taken a close look at my team.
You would then realise that I am picking a squad of 15 out of 20 players not 28, as I have so many that aren't playing or are injured and it's been that way from the beginning for me.
I took over a mess of a team and I am trying to build it back up and failing at times, this is a chance for me to get rid of my dead wood and get players that are going to play and help my young players come through.
Jed Adcock (D/F) – Not getting a game
Jack Grimes (Def) – Not getting a game
Matt White (M/F) – Injured in the first 10 minutes of the first game and has not been seen or heard from again
Matt Shaw (M) – Not getting a game
Troy Chaplin (Def) – Played 8 games, not well I might add and has been dropped, he was meant to be a stop gap but failed and is a spud
Jake Carlisle (D/F, not playing in 2016)
Alex Pearce – Out for the year
Tom Langdon – Out for 5 weeks, we think
Darcy Moore – Out for 6 weeks
I have been involved in more than one trade where one coach has gotten the better deal, and that coach has been me, so as they say swings and round abouts.
I actually think Jen gets the better deal out of this trade, but its pretty close imo.
Fair trade for mine.
I am happy for coaches to do what they want with their teams as long as it doesnt affect the balance of the league in any way (example a fire sale of a team if a coach was about to resign/quit and was giving guys away for peanuts)
So I am totally fine with their trade, they are both intelligent adults and can make their own choices for their teams.Sometimes trades have winners and losers sometimes they are more even, who is to say? Chris might draft absolute spuds and then Jen wins by a mile.
I on the other hand should not be allowed to trade another ruck away, ever.
Yeah the trade is fine to me, the only issue I have is that...
I Wanted The Hoff!
Times like these I wish I had two Hoffs to trade. Alas ....
Alas... we move on.
Lefties send Tom Cutler and their 1st round PSD pick to the Battlers in exchange for Daniel Wells and their 3rd round PSD pick.
I'm fine with the trade
The Misifts trade Jake Barrett and MSD pick 38 to Darraweit for pick MSD 26
Edited to correct pick number from 25 to 26
To correct our PSD trade stuff up
Wagga Wagga send over MSD #13, in exchange for MSD picks #33 and #69
i think pick 31 was the problem. wasnt that the one Wagga Wagga traded to me already?
Yup, 31 belongs to Gariwerd
Errrrrrrr typo, corrected now
The Misfits and the Battlers have concluded a deal resulting in Marble Bar sending Connor Blakely and their 3rd round PSD pick to the Battlers in exchange for Marc Murphy.
Darraweit Guim and Charlie's Opening have reached a deal that sees Tom Nicholls and The Spelunkers' 3rd round PSD pick go to Darraweit in exchange for Mitch McGovern and Darraweit's 1st Round PSD pick
Separate names with a comma.