Also, just as a question - if the Pick 7 MSD compensation proposal is voted down, then where do we go on the issue? I ask because, as I state above, I fear that if we don't get the issue sorted now, any future attempts to put in place a compensatory pick might also be voted down, meaning that there is no compensation provided for the (what I feel was unfair) removal of the Lilacs' Pick 7 in the PSD. Will any compensation die with this vote, or will it be put back until the PSD. Because I am not comfortable with either scenario.
I assumed it was now or never on both questions, that was in my thoughts when voting. I am not of the opinion that the lost pick return is an entitlement, there was a punishment handed to the team, and (I think, again this influenced my vote) that the call had already been made when the team was offered up to the new owner, that is the ownership was accepted with the sanction in place. This discussion came up later in response to the initial poor performance of the Lilacs from memory? If that's the criteria being used still then I'll take two and Snoz probably needs 1/2 dozen at least
Lenh - regards the original context of the discussion, yes I reckon you are spot on - it was primarily in regards to the performance of the Lilacs. However, I'll stand up as one of a couple of a couple of coaches here that said that no extra pick be handed out to the Lilacs on the basis of on-field performance, and that a pick should be granted on the basis of one being taken from the team. At the time of the pick being removed in the pre-season draft, there was literally no-one on control of the team. The former coach of the FK Frogs had left without telling anyone, and the franchise had no coach. Jen was specifically asked by league HQ to come in at very short notice and take over. However, by then, Pick 7 had been taken from the team. And as we know, Blue Believer did almost all of Jen's picks during the draft - despite her actually having the green light to take over as coach and look after the team. So the new coach of the franchise had no say in pick 7, and no say in the further picks that occurred until around pick 110 or more. For mine, it is that context that strikes me as very unfair, which is why I'm in favour of a pick. But in the original context of team performance, I'm not in favour of any extra picks (thus my no vote to the priority picks). What I think we need to do here is be clear on the context of this pick to the Lilacs. Can the commish please clarify why this proposal is in play - is it because of injuries/team performance, or is it because of the circumstances surrounding Pick 7 and Jen taking over the team. Because if it is the former, I'll be changing my vote to no - however I thought we were discussing this in terms of the latter context.
I vote for Lilacs receiving the 17th pick of the mid season draft and the 17th pick of the end of season draft as compensation for the circumstances surrounding the loss of pick 7.
Philosoraptor wrote: I vote for Lilacs receiving the 17th pick of the mid season draft and the 17th pick of the end of season draft as compensation for the circumstances surrounding the loss of pick 7. LOL. Gandalf, your 'vote' is taken as no and no. Your 'suggestion' or 'proposal' for 17/17 is taken on board. @chris, I believe my OP is pretty clear on the circumstances.
Pick 7 in the 1st round of the draft be given to LBL (in addition to Pick 3 which would result from reverse ladder order): a) Yes b) No I think that I was put at a very big disadvantage to the other two coaches that took over the other teams; they got to take part in the pre-season draft and the trade period and got to delist who they wanted. Then they were able to make their own picks in the pre-season draft. Through the neglect of the pervious coach pick 7 was taken away from me before I even took over the team. I wasn't able to properly delist players, I wasn't able to trade players and I wasn't able to make my own draft picks. I feel like I am being punished for the slackness of the previous coach, especially as I took the team over through the draft period. Compensation (first round) mid-season draft picks be given to the three bottom teams: a) Yes b) No You are always going to have bottom teams and you are always going to have top teams and that can change through a season and over time the bottom teams can become top teams and vice versa. Hopefully having two extra players on list can helps all teams that have been hit with injuries.
Jen wrote: b) No You are always going to have bottom teams and you are always going to have top teams and that can change through a season and over time the bottom teams can become top teams and vice versa. This is evidenced by Gundagai finishing top 4 last season, and then in the predicament they're in now.
The status of pick 7 was very clearly defined prior to Jen taking over the team. These posts from the 'The Far Kew Issue' thread are cut and pasted below to evidence the fact that any new owner taking on the team, be it Jen or Eddie Mcguire would be aware of where this sat. Posted by Terry - 19th Feb 8:41 server time <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]Quote: BlueBeliever is going to nurse the Frogs and will enter the draft at Nick's 2nd round pick. Pick #7 is no more. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]The search for a new coach to take over the franchise is already underway and it will be put to the floor before a firm decision is made either way. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]Given these developments, can see no reason to interrupt the draft any more than has already occurred. However, healthy discussion is always welcome here in the meantime and I will summarize the issues/ideas as soon as I can. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]'<em style='font-size: 12px;]I think 9.30am 20/02 should be cut off for the pick.[span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]' Spelling Prap. Always check your spelling. Posted by Terry 19th Feb 10:52 server timeQuote: <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]TBH Nick was #3 on my hit list last year. I was looking forward to a clean up and starting this, our first full season, with 18 committed coaches. Basically so we could get on with it and return to having some fun. However, given the howls of protest at this dictatorial acting Commish, I opted to let the Nick issue slide. Being wise after the event does not help. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]Firstly, would like to address the issue raised by Prap: <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]<em style='font-size: 12px;]'I am also wary of the possibility of some hungry wolves around here that will benefit from someone not taking their pick this early in the draft, it could easily sway their position on this. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]<em style='font-size: 12px;] <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]<em style='font-size: 12px;]Sorry if that offends you but it could be the case.' <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]<em style='font-size: 12px;] <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]<em style='font-size: 12px;] <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]Hungry wolves is good.<em style='font-size: 12px;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]It would be very nice to have 18 committed and hungry wolves.<em style='font-size: 12px;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]From where I sit, passing over pick #7 benefits, in fairly equal measure, 17 other coaches.<em style='font-size: 12px;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]One particularly hungry wolf might move up one position, but so does everybody else. The effect is pretty much the same as someone taking Brodie Grundy with their first pick. Since he was not all that high on everyone's list, effectively they all move up one. And thank you for it, hungry or no.<em style='font-size: 12px;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]Also, am pretty sure everyone, except Nick, have decided who they want with their first pick and are unlikely to adjust this greatly. Just means their chances of landing that one are marginally improved. Am I missing something? Posted by Terry 19th Feb 11:39 server time Quote: <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]Skipping. Let's not suggest the Frog case is setting a precedent. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]The normal draft rule, as laid out, is that after 18 hours you fail to show up, your pick is passed over and the draft continues. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, you get to take that pick in the next round. This is designed for coaches who, for possibly no good reason at all, did not turn up at the appointed hour or within 18 hours of the time thereof. It does not eliminate the problem of a disinterested coach, but it does provide some incentive to be a participant. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]In the case of the Frogs, however, the rule has been applied with the difference being that the #7 is no longer available in any round. That is because it is known that Nick is not a participant now, nor in the future. Thus a penalty applies. Some might suggest that this is putting any new coach at a disadvantage. Debatable. Look at our two latest coaches and look at the odds CR is giving for them. It is possible to trade your way in. So the Frog's case is a bit unusual, otherwise the normal rule above is applied. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]T[span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]igersTooTough is interested, but due to Year 12 commitments this year can't be as active as he would like in forums, etc. He has acknowledged the need to enter a team each week. He has also been appraised of being in for the long haul. Fitzy is annoyed that Nick refused to trade with him, so he is offering up another 'mate'.At this stage I would appreciate views of all coaches, except Nick, on the proposal for TigersTooTough to inherit the Far Kew franchise. There are many other posts discussing this, but the stance never changes. Posted by Jen on the 22nd Feb 3:19 server time Quote: <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]I have just been reading the thread and I thought that I should say something, since it does concern me. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]Yes, I have been given the code for the SC League and have joined, I have not officially been given the team but yes I was able to delist 2 players, which I have also done. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]BB will be doing the last two draft picks, 61 and 111 and I will pick 112 and 113. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]I understand were TiB and Lenh are coming from, they need to be sure that I am 100% committed to taking over this team and I am. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;] <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]Then posted by Terry on the 24th Feb at 6:52 server timeQuote: <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]Given the views of the majority of coaches, I think we can put the Kew in the rack and handover the vacant franchise to Jen. <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;][span style='font-size: 12px; background-color: #ffffff;]Welcome! <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;] <p style='margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, San-Serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 16px; background-color: #ffffff; color: #000000;]Forgive me, it's been a long day in a long week, but I fail to understand why this is still being raised as an issue if we take equalisation off the table.
Len - I understand all that. My question is this: Is it fair that Nick's 'desertion' (if I can put it that way) impacts on the current owner of the franchise? Because, no matter how you slice it, dice it or quote it, that's what it boils down to - whether said new owner agrees to take on the franchise or not. One can agree to do something even though it isn't 100% fair. Reckon we all have at some stage in our lives. The fairness issues is what I am basing my 'YES' vote on the issue on. If we wished to have the pick at pick 7, or at pick 17, I wouldn't care as a coach. What I do care about is fairness - this is why I vote YES to this, and why I vote YES to the list expansion without a corresponding increase in list turnover (in the latter case the extra players without the need for extra turnovers allows greater fairness in keeping quality players who are injured while allowing more teams to get full squads on the park).
Eddie! /Portals/0/User%20Images/eddie-mcguire2.jpg [span style='color: #ff0000;][span style='font-size: 16px;]Who has Adam Goodes in their squad?
Am I missing something here with talk of a 17th pick in the first round? We have 18 teams, is this a deliberate ploy to move the two top sides further back in any draft?
I vote no and no. For losing pick 7 at the 2013 pre-season draft I think Lovely Banks should receive pick 7 in the 2014 pre-season draft as compensation. Any compensation in this years mid-season draft would not be adequate.
chels wrote: Am I missing something here with talk of a 17th pick in the first round? We have 18 teams, is this a deliberate ploy to move the two top sides further back in any draft? Most observant chels. It seems some realise you are going to be the top team come the MSD. In your own quiet and unassuming way of course. Put it in a bottle and sell it to Snoz.