Expanding to 10 teams will be put to a vote of all current clubs after GWFFPL Round 2, with 14 days to vote, and a majority of votes cast to be in favour for it to carry. If expansion is supported then it is be intended that current coaches have the opportunity to recruit interested friends and family with a passion for AFLW and/or fantasy footy to fill the 2 Expansion club roles, or the new coach/es could fill an existing club head coach role with an existing coach swapping to an expansion club. Otherwise we will open the 2 extra spots up in mid 2024 to bids from across the @aflwfantasy twitterverse. If expanded to 10 teams, the Premier League will remain at that number with no further expansion planned unless by unanimous agreement of all 10 clubs. ---------------------------------- A proposal to expand to 10 teams will include 6 teams making finals over a 3 week finals series, with the following structure envisaged while the AFLW gradually increases the season length closer to parity with the men’s season - 10 week season = 7 home and away rounds plus 3 week finals - 11 week season = 8 home and away rounds plus 3 week finals - 12 week season = full home and away fixture plus 3 week finals - 13 week season = 10 home and away rounds plus 3 week finals - 14 week season = 11 home and away rounds plus 3 week finals ---------------------------------- In most professional sports provides new franchise with a fair and reasonable opportunity to acquire top players from existing teams and be instantly competitive with regards to making finals and be amongst the mid table teams. The following alternative approaches are proposed for expansion – should a majority of the current 8 coaches support expansion in the first place. Should any of the current 8 coaches wish to propose an alternative expansion model (#3, #4 or #5 etc) please do so and we will add it to the options. #1 – Current teams maintain 80-85% of their current 23 player squad – with 32 players assigned to expansion teams prior to the 2024 Premier League pre-season draft as follows 20 players will be drawn from existing teams current lists via an expansion draft with 2023 Finals teams contribute 3 listed players from their 8th to 23rd ranked players and 2023 non finals teams contribute 2 players from their 8th to 23rd ranked players. A mechanism for this will be explained in greater detail should option 1 be approved. The 20 players will be selected collectively from the 8 existing teams by an independent and experienced AFLW keeper league coach and then re-formed as 2 squads with similar profiles in terms of 2024 position, age, AFLW team/State composition and scoring capacity and then offered "as is" as a squad of 10 to the two expansion team coaches 8 players will then be drawn as priority picks (4 by each expansion coach in snake format) from the 2024 Free Agent pool (2023 Free Agents plus delistings) after existing teams have contributed the 20 players and then delisted to 16 players per team by cutting 4 or 5 more players each. This will leave each expansion team with 14 players. 4 players will be drawn as priority picks (2 by each expansion coach in snake format) from the 2005 born draftee pool playing in the 2024 AFLW season. This will leave each expansion team with 16 players. The expansion teams will then alternate picks 1 and 2 in each of the 7 rounds of the 2024 Premier League pre-season draft to fill up their squads of 23 players for season 2024. From season 2025 onwards the Premier League will allow 17 keepers plus 6 rounds of draft picks, however under option 1 one or both of the expansion teams may be eligible for additional priority Free Agent/new draftee selections if they finish below all 8 existing franchises in 2024, ie 1 game behind = one 2006 born draftee + 1 Free Agent, 2 or more games behind = 2 * 2006 born draftees + 2 Free Agents The expansion team would participate as normal in the 2025 preseason draft so any priority selections would require the expansion team to name less than 17 keepers to access the optional concession. #2 – A full 10 team "re-draft" spread over 3 draft nights (potentially Tuesday, Thursday and Tuesday following the 2024 AFLW practice matches) with each team selecting 23 players as follows, the 2023 Premier League finishing order would give coaches a choice of their preferred slot in the following 2024 draft order, with the expansion teams receiving 5th and 6th choice after the 2023 finalists. - 8 rounds (banzai) Team 1 to 10 – players born 2003 or earlier excluding rucks – players 1-80 (2nd and 3rd rounds both run team 10 to team 1) - 8 rounds (snake) Team 10 to team 1 – players born 2003 or earlier excluding rucks – players 81-160 - 7 rounds (snake) Team 10 to team 1 – FA's remaining plus rucks and 2004 and 2005 born players – players 161 to 230
@Chloe @FreoDockers @hoschke118 @Athos123 @Jono Steven @WillH_VI @Peter W The vote is not yet open but feel free to put up views for and against expansion, alternatives or tweaks to the 2 proposed expansion models and anything else that you think is relevant before we proceed to a vote next week.
I think with the 18 team AFLW era now a reality we are at the point where we need to decide whether out current 8 team structure is what the majority of coaches want, or if we would like a slightly different look and feel moving forward. With the current Premier League our teams are the best of the best from player 1 to 23. While that is great it also means we have unbelievably strong benches – for example for Round 2 across the 8 teams D – Jakobson, Curthebrtson, Shevlin, Molly McDonald, Keaney, Koenan, Tarrant, Biddell M – Vogt, Hurley, Britton, O’Sullivan, Dawes, Nanskawen, T White, Lambert F – Hooker, Davison, Wardlaw, Roberts, Bodey, Ponter, C Hamilton, Shierlaw R – S Wales, A Edmonds, C Gould, M McKinnon, G Seymour, L Pearce, L Wales, L Bella IC – Baskaran, Drennan, Rowley, J Stewart, Tyanna Smith, Gavalas, McNamara, Hodder And the 40 players not making those benches are by and large also extremely good and consistent players. Personally the main reason I support a 10 team Premier League is because adding another 26 on field opportunities each week for the cohort of 40 players plus the others not making the 18 each week, putting a lot of that talent on field where it rightfully should be. In a 10 team league teams bench choices will still be full of great players but a bit more realistic than the current status quo. Our first TS keeper league the ORFFW is a 12 team league in which the AFLW talent is far more thinly spread meaning the back end of the PSD and the MSD is extremely tight for the few players who slip through even though our keeper numbers are lower. By comparison the larger/stronger FA pool (with 4 less teams) means our Premier League drafts are much, much deeper so we often find coaches are able to pick most of the options they identify before the draft or have several almost as good fallback options if they don’t. I have no problem if other coaches have a wildly different view of the playing pool and drafting and would like everyone to feel comfortable expressing that if need be. I also recognise that an 8 team league is a great fit for coaches who are casual AFLW followers or prefer a stress free keeper league. By expanding the league I expect that wouldn’t change a heck of a lot and also think a 6 team finals should boost engagement for all participants. I also recognise from first hand experience the current 8 team format provides an opportunity to takeover a team and overhaul it within 12-18 months while remaining competitive from week to week. I do expect that to be harder to do in a 10 team league but that while pre-season list cuts remain at or above 25% and a healthy Free Agent pool http://tooserious.net/forum/stats.p...gueTeamId=FA&tsLeagueId=22&sort=ave&desc=desc exists it shouldn’t take that much longer for new coaches to achieve that aim should they takeover a club at any point in time. Again, if anyone has a different view or a discussion point that hasn't been raised then please express it. Cheers, TTH.
I like the idea of expanding to 10 teams, being able to field the lesser known players is one of the best advantages of a Keeper League over Classic formats. Also, in the interest of whoever the new coaches are, I'd prefer option #2 where we re-draft entirely new squads (I'm sure we'd all end up with our favourites back anyway). Another alternative we could do is to play an additional player per line and draft larger squads to accommodate? That way we'd play an additional 32 / 40 players on field each week. I'm not sure how technically feasible that would be on the back end, but just an idea to consider.
I'm in favour of an expanded league but as always I like the idea of some protection for the "originals" against giving too much to the expansion sides (or that might just be I'm still dirty about the benefits West Coast have received over Freo in the last few drafts haha). All that said the ability to expand to 10 sides is a great idea and I think I support #1 which provides some security for coaches who have built their lists from scratch and still gives enough incentives for new coaches to want to join. Any thoughts from anyone else?
I'm all for expansion. It'd be great to get to know some of the depth players better. As much as I love my Llamas, I think option 2 would be my preference. The continuity is great but if I remember right I think only half of the current coaches started this league with their current teams? It'd be good to give everyone the opportunity to build their teams from scratch, including the newcomers. And that elaborate draft sounds pretty exciting. It sure would make me even more determined get the premiership this season though, to try and get a win for my current crew.
I like the idea of expansion and would be all for it. I had a few thoughts for the creation of the lists. In terms of realism it would be great if there was a combination of “free agency” and “draft concessions”. I’m in the camp of trying to keep the established teams as stable as possible, but without having two uncompetitive teams. My suggestion: - Established teams hold onto 15 players from their squad, leaving 8 players from the 8 squads (64) in the draft pool. They go into a “draft” for the expansion sides. - The expansion draft will contain 46 picks where the two expansion teams ultimately select their list from either the open draft pool or the draftees (05ers in this case). I would drop the maximum limit for 05ers for these two sides as ultimately the best way to be competitive long-term is to pick up high quality youngsters. - The next draft features the original teams to complete their lists (64) It means the top 8 teams should have: - 15 players in the top 120 - 8 players ranked 167-230 The two expansion sides: - 23 players ranked 121-166 Effectively teams retain their starting lineups but their depth drops considerably, while the new teams have the chance to have the best young talent with less immediate top-end talent. Ideally there are other mechanisms to include that could aid with expansion such as trading (which could be players in those top 15 for picks in the expansion draft and therefore access to the top young talent/depth). It could also be adjusted on the number of carryovers and the number of expansion picks depending on the quality value. Ie. might carry over 12, then have an expansion draft that picks up 18, then all teams are in a more normal draft to pick the rest. The main crux of my suggestion involves the expansion teams using the draft to catch up rather than decimating the established teams. As someone who knows the draft crop, I would be happy to switch to an expansion side if it seemed too daunting for a new coach
Cheers to those who have contributed so far. It looks like we have reasonable support to expand as well as a range of views and models on how we may implement it First things first, I will ask @WillH_VI @Athos123 and @Chloe to jump onboard and confirm whether their vote would make it a unanimous 8-0 in favour of expansion. Then if that pans out as expected I will work on a few more discussion/decision points we need to bed down fairly quickly thereafter.
I'm happy to expand it, be fine with some concessions to get the new teams in the mix, always think its more fun when everyone's competing, but I do appreciate a keeper league is about gradually building and the connection longer term coaches have with their teams.
I'm all for expanding the league, doing option 1, and being able to keep some of our players. However, I do think it would be fun to start all over again and spice it up a little so we're all on an even playing field.
So we can confirm the intention to expand to 10 teams based on unanimous support. Timeframe wise it won't be possible to work through everything prior to the upcoming MSD so keep in mind that anything from a complete re-draft to a more typical expansion model may be implemented and there may either be a continuation of current ruck and younger player restrictions or these may be remodelled or abandoned. So for teams that are currently a little but older than others such as Majorca, Korea @Chloe and Vancouver @Athos123 as well as picking up high average players to replace duds also consider whether the upcoming MSD gives the opportunity to boost the number of 19-23yo players on their list through selective delisting and drafting decisions in case the expansion process impacts list demographics.