@ SCS I mean he had 15 possessions, 5 of which were goals, which leaves 10 possessions. According to your stats, which I am not questioning whatsoever, out of these 10 possessions he committed 6 clangers. So that only leaves 4 possessions that were neither a goal or clanger.
<blockquote>Quote from Credmi on April 11, 2012, 22:45 I'm not questioning your figures SCS, I'm sure you've read a SC scorecard (which I haven't), but 15 possessions, 5 goals & 6 clangers?? WTF Does that mean that jpod only had 4 possessions that weren't either a clanger or goal?? or did he have 7 non- clanger/goal possessions, 5 goals & 6 clangers (which included 3 free kicks against him)?? CD doesn't need to give away all the details of their 50 or so herbs & spices, but they need to be a little bit more transparent of the scoring system in my opinion. Last year Walesy posted a transcript of an interview he conducted with a CD representative, could another interview be done this year? Maybe the CD representative could be asked such things as: - Is the pressure a player is under considered when deciding if he has committed a clanger? - If a player gives away a free kick, is their score reduced by both a free kick against & a clanger? - What constitutes a contested possession? ie. does it have to be body on body when the ball arrives, or does it include instances where players jostle each other & 1 player shakes off the other & gains possession in the clear. - Are match winning acts of play (eg a goal after the siren) scored the same as match saving acts of play (eg Leo Barry's mark)? </blockquote> This year's QandA with Dr. Karl http://tooserious.net/some-more-from-champion-data On your queries, if I may: 1) No. 2) A FA is a clanger. 3) A CP is best defined as a possession won when the ball is in dispute. Hardball Gets (+4), Looseball Gets (+4), Contested Mark (+6, I think), Contested Mark from Opposition (+8, I think) 4) Impossible to say. Different scoring actions. Suffice to say, I think the goal after the siren would score more.
@hornsy on that page it says.... """" KJ: Tackles are only paid if they either force a stoppage, a rewarded with a free kick or force an ineffective disposal. If you’re all over your opponent but they still manage to get a handball away you’re not going to be given a tackle"""""" would u or anyone else know ....when u click on the afl stats page say last week jobe had 13 tackles i think.......do the afl count a tackle in the stats as a tackle regardless if the ball gets handballed kicked away ? ie if we are looking for a tackle machine to trade in by the afl stats page are we getting fools gold compared to the way cd count a tackle ?
<blockquote>Quote from VanderHaar on April 12, 2012, 00:35 @hornsy on that page it says.... """" KJ: Tackles are only paid if they either force a stoppage, a rewarded with a free kick or force an ineffective disposal. If you’re all over your opponent but they still manage to get a handball away you’re not going to be given a tackle"""""" </blockquote> It's the bolded bit I think you're interested in.
@Hornsy Cheers for your answers to my queries. My retort: 1. Surprising, would've thought a player under no pressure who stuffs up their possession would be penalised more than a player who stuffs up when they were under the pump. 2. Thought so ;-) 3. Worded my query wrong, I was drunk. Meant to ask: in a marking contest, does a contested mark need to be body on body, or can a "contested" mark be taken 2 metres in the clear if the player marking has legally out jostled his opponent & won the 2 metres of free space. 4. Yeah, as I said, I was drunk, that was a bit like asking how long is a piece of string. Anyway, once again, thanks for your response, especially the Dr Karl link you posted, greatly appreciated.
@Credmi 1. An ineffective kick is an ineffective kick. If they are cut slack because they are under pressure, where is the reward for the guy putting them under pressure? In any case, most disposals under pressure are won in a contested situation. So they are rewarded for the CP (+4), just not for the ineffective disposal (0). If you win the ball in an uncontested manner, and then find yourself under pressure that effects your disposal, that's your own fault really. If you look at the 5 best scoring midfielders from last year, there's a common trait that runs through them, aside from their ability to get the ball a hell of a lot. It's their ability to marry winning a stack of CP's with a better DE than their peers playing the same role. Essentially, what they're doing is winning possession under pressure, but have the ability to move away from that pressure to dispose of it cleanly as if they'd won it in an uncontested fashion. Except for Pendles, who is just a freak who doesn't feel pressure at all. 3. Bit of a piece of string question. Can't answer definitively, soz.
@ Hornsy My point with question 1 is: If I were a player 10 metres in the clear & under no pressure & shanked a kick that went straight to an opponent, I'd be peed off with myself & would be happily incur the wrath of the CD scorers & my teammates. However, if I had no free space to work in & was about to be tackled & my disposal went straight to an opponent, I wouldn't feel as bad. I could happily look my teammates in the eye & tell them I had no choice, it was either I get pinned 4 holding the ball, or I slam it on my boot & hope 4 the best. If the opposition is to get a possession as a result of my actions, I would prefer they get it further from their goal than me being caught holding the ball closer to their goal. As for question 3, surely the CD people would've cut the piece of string, so they should be able to tell u/us its exact length. I heard them use the figure 3.1415926535, but wasn't sure if they were talking about the length of string or the temperature of the meat in a pie brought at the MCG. Anyway, drunk again, time 4 bed, cheers 4 the response.
@Credmi Re: 1) It's great that you wouldn't feel as bad. However, looking at it objectively, the end result is a turnover. If the opposition wins an UP off your disposal, that's a clanger. In the team sense of footy, maybe your teammates didn't provide you with any options to kick to, or failed to block the opposition for you. Doesn't really matter, the end result is your team lost possession. And yes, gaining territory whilst losing possession over just losing possession is a better result. This is already factored into scores though (long kick >40M= 4 points, possessions don't count unless you get a disposal away, so a holding the ball decision would just be a FA). 3) Surely they have, but I don't know the measurement. Suffice to say, I know a contest when I see one.
Can a clanger kick/handball also be an effective kick/handball because Podsiadly had 15 disposals including 6 clangers at a DE of 80%
FA's are clangers, yet are not disposals. You can have clangers that are not disposals, but not clangers that are effective disposals.
@ Hornsy Excellent clarifications, ta @ scs Pods' disposals were rated as 80% effective because he had 15 touches, 5 of which were goals, 7 were non goals/clangers, 3 possesions were clangers & he gave away 3 FA's. So you add the 5 & 7, which gives you 12 out of 15, which is 80%. He didn't have 6 clangers AND 3 FA's, he had 6 clangers which INCLUDED 3 FA's.