"Old Man" Whinge Thread

Discussion in 'ORFFU' started by JPK, May 12, 2017.

  1. choppers

    choppers Well-Known Member

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    Haven't had one of these for a while, but it's time for another broadside........
    .and this time I'm taking aim at those selfish coaches who can find the time to enter into a trade negotiation but then can't seem to find the time within 2-3 days to finalise the deal. C'mon you blokes, it can't be that difficult.
    You commence the deal, you do your research and due dilligence and then you say YES or NO. It shouldn't take any longer than a few days.
    Taking longer than that, and you earn the ire of every other Coach who can't get anything done because they're waiting on YOU to make a bl**dy decision, before they can proceed with their deals.

    And while I'm at it, it's also probably delaying some Coaches' decisions on who they need to de-list to get down to 24 players on their list, and right now there's only 11 days left to do that.

    So do the right thing by everyone, and finalise any deals you have going as soon as possible and stop holding everyone else up.:mad::mad::mad:

    I'm off now to settle down with a nice cup of Nerada tea and a bikkie.
     
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  2. martyg

    martyg Well-Known Member

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    Old Man whinge or Old Man rant... geez ;)

    Lucky I don't have anything going on at the moment!
     
  3. bryzza

    bryzza Well-Known Member

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    My whinge regarding automatic delisting down to 24 and having to take 4 picks in the draft. Currently this is suffocating trading which is in my opinion the most exciting part of the season. So far we have 11 completed trades compared to last years 28 a flurry of deals quoted below. There has to be a link and we should review again.

    1) Blanchetown Bunyips send Hugh Goddard to Coolgardie Prospectors for Tory Dickson.
    2) Southern Cross Sandgropers send Charlie Cameron and PSD23 to Blanchetown Bunyips for Lachie Whitfield and PSD68.
    3) Southern Cross Sandgropers send PSD11 to Groote Eylandt Barracudas for Ben Cunnington.
    4) Nuytsland Vikings send Mitch Robinson to Banchang Barcrawlers for PSD30.
    5) Banchang Barcrawlers send PSD12 and MSD R1 to Staghorn Flat Bulls for Ryan Bastinac and MSD R2.
    6) Nuytsland Vikings send Levi Greenwood to Hughenden Prairie Dogs for PSD40.
    7) Nuytsland Vikings send Josh Wagner to Eden Whalers for PSD24.
    8) Cow Bay Crocs send Caleb Marchbank to Blanchetown Bunyips for PSD14.
    9) Staghorn Flat Bulls send Nathan Wilson and PSD12 to Gisborne Grenades for PSD2 and PSD56.
    10) Nuytsland Vikings send Liam Picken and PSD13 to Korumburra Blowflies for Steve Motlop, PSD57 and MSD R2.
    11) Pearcedale Panthers send Tim Membrey to Hughenden Prairie Dogs for PSD22.
    12) Banchang Barcrawlers send Joel Selwood to Staghorn Flat Bulls for Aaron Hall, Garrick Ibbotson and ontraded MSD R1 (originally Banchang).
    13) Staghorn Flat Bulls send Matthew Boyd to Nuytsland Vikings for PSD24.
    14) Cow Bay Crocs send PSD14 to Serengeti Buffaloes and PSD19 to Eden Whalers
    Eden Whalers send PSD8 and PSD17 to Serengeti Buffaloes
    Serengeti Buffaloes send PSD6 to Cow Bay Crocs and Nick Vlastuin and PSD42 to Eden Whalers.​
    15) Nuytsland Vikings send Sam Mayes to Staghorn Flat Bulls for PSD24.
    16) Eden Whalers, Via Auction, send PSD 27,29 and 47 to Banchang Barcrawlers for Sam Gibson and Harry Cunningham.
    17) Eden Whalers send Easton Wood to Staghorn Flat Bulls for MSD R1.
    18) Nuytsland Vikings send PSD57 and MSD R1 to Christmas Island Smugglers for PSD43 and MSD R2.
    19) Cow Bay Crocs send MSD R2 to Korumburra Blowflies for Travis Cloke.
    20) Gisborne Grenades send Jack Riewoldt, PSD38, and MSD R1 to Serengeti Buffaloes for Adam Oxley, PSD14, PSD45, and MSD R1.
    21) Serengeti Buffaloes send Luke Dunstan and MSD R2 to Christmas Island Smugglers for Jarrod Harbrow, PSD39 and PSD49.
    22) Blanchetown Bunyips send Tom Langdon and PSD50 to the Serengeti Buffaloes for Jack Silvagni, PSD60 and ontraded MSD R1 (originally Gisborne).
    23) Serengeti Buffaloes send PSD39 and PSD49 to Staghorn Flat Bulls for Sam Reid.
    24) Groote Eylandt Barracudas send PSD18 and MSD R1 to Hughenden Prairie Dogs for Jarrad Waite and Tom Hawkins.
    25) Banchang Barcrawlers send Sam Docherty to Korumburra Blowflies for Pearce Hanley and PSD13.
    26) Serengeti Buffaloes send Rhys Mathieson and PSD8 to Ararat Armadillos for Jack Steven and PSD41.
    27) Ararat Armadillos send Lewis Taylor to Christmas Island Smugglers for Trent Dumont.
    28) Korumburra Blowflies send Leigh Montagna and PSD20 to Nuytsland Vikings for Sam Menegola, PSD43, and MSD R2 (originally Christmas Island).[/QUOTE]
     
  4. martyg

    martyg Well-Known Member

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    trade 25 :) would have thought there would be some serious regrets this year, next year - different story!
     
  5. insider

    insider Moderator Staff Member

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    Considering Hanley had his share of injury troubles in 2017 and only played 13 games, I reckon it's still a long term trade... if that makes sense
     
  6. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    While I don't disagree with the pace of things, remember that not all of those trades occurred by the end of the calendar year.
    I do think some coaches are a little more wary this year, but there should be plenty of opportunity to draft good players, and trade after the draft, so we should still see some trades happening. Lets wait and see.
     
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  7. HOLKY

    HOLKY Moderator

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    And why is the MID-SEASON bye round so late in the season?
     
  8. bryzza

    bryzza Well-Known Member

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    While I don't disagree with the pace of things, remember that not all of those trades occurred by the end of the calendar year.
    I do think some coaches are a little more wary this year, but there should be plenty of opportunity to draft good players, and trade after the draft, so we should still see some trades happening. Lets wait and see.[/QUOTE]

    traditionally after the draft no deals are made, trade 28 between myself and blowflies was the last trade done before the draft commenced. Like you said lets wait and see but i hope we can resolve this
     
  9. eagle_eyed

    eagle_eyed Training the house down!

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    As someone who likes to trade (maybe a little too much) it has been tougher this season. Whether that is due to the mandatory picks or a change in attitude towards experience over youth I am unsure, there are however definitely more coaches wanting an experienced player rather than an early draft selection when it comes to trading. Something I wanted to put out there was maybe looking at allowing the trading of future picks up to three drafts in front. The reason for three is that it would mean if you valued someone highly enough you could offer a pick from this years PSD and next years PSD. Giving up two PSD picks from the same draft when you have four mandatory picks is pretty hard to swallow; however if it was one this year and one next year the pain is better spread. Maybe this is something we can discuss after this years PSD?
     
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  10. martyg

    martyg Well-Known Member

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    I thought we could offer future picks? Is it stipulated that we cannot? I for one think we should be able to do it.
     
  11. eagle_eyed

    eagle_eyed Training the house down!

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    I think we can only trade picks for the next two drafts. As an example, prior to this PSD we can trade picks to this PSD & the next MSD. Pretty sure the third draft is not currently included.
     
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  12. choppers

    choppers Well-Known Member

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    Very good suggestion, and something JPK and I discussed briefly, only a couple of months ago, and thought we should wait til after this current trade period before putting it to the masses.
     
  13. JPK

    JPK Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly this. Now that its been brought up, and not by us, we can discuss.
    We definitely won't implement anything for this trade period, but maybe for the future.
    On a side note, I'm on a rebuild / youth policy, so anyone wanting to trade youth / picks for experience is welcome to come knocking.
     
  14. eagle_eyed

    eagle_eyed Training the house down!

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    You can pay me later ;)
     
  15. insider

    insider Moderator Staff Member

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    3 drafts ahead (per EEs suggestion) doesn’t seem to be too excessive. That’s a +1 from me
     
  16. fresh

    fresh Well-Known Member

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    Like it
     
  17. Tylo

    Tylo Moderator

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    So I normally don't get involved in the whinging and its probably not wise to post at 2am but I've been lying in bed for 45 mins unable to sleep with this in my head. So hopefully getting it off my chest gets me some rest.

    The only 2 reasons I would veto is if I thought there was collusion of sorts (someone sacrificing their team to help another) or to save a coach from making an incredibly foolish mistake. Surely no-one thinks Mick is sacrificing his team to help me, and given he was going to get nothing for Fisher and Picken, it seems reasonable that he gets the best he can.

    The only reason I can think of for anyone disapproving of the trade is pure jealousy, ie I can't fit those players into my squad but I don't want someone else to get them cheap either. What a sad state of affairs it will be if a coach is forced to de-list players for nothing rather than use them in a trade.

    There have been trades in the past that have annoyed me because they have appeared lop-sided - the Gibbs trade from a couple of years ago comes to mind, I would have paid far more for him than what he went for. But if I'm being honest, I'm annoyed at myself because I didn't get in on them - either I was too slow to act or I didn't think of it.

    Yes I'm getting a bargain out of the deal but don't begrudge me because I'm willing to fit those guys onto my list when you aren't. When I offered the deal it was just Dunkley for Goddard, which I thought was fair considering it may well be BJ's last year. From what I can tell no-one else wants players over 30. Mick's moved himself up 20 spots in the draft by giving up 2 guys he was going to get nothing for. I'm sure if he had better offers for those guys he would have taken them. We both win. He's happy with what he gets, I'm happy with what I get. If anyone else has a problem with us coming up with a trade that benefits us both I think they need to have a good hard look at why they're not happy.

    Hopefully now I can sleep
     
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  18. fresh

    fresh Well-Known Member

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    The value of a trade is subjective. The interpretation of the veto rule is subjective. Coaches will have a different interpretation of "a trade that isn't in the spirit of the 'FU" or whatever the official meaning behind the rule is.

    The main issue I have with your post @Tylo is your point about anyone disapproving of the trade is because they're jealous of it. You have an interest in the trade going through and your post discourages coaches from using it in this instance. In general, I would rather see concerns being raised about a trade, whether it's by questioning it or by vetoing it, than not at all. That way we have an active FU community and we know that we'll be held to account rather than having an avenue or opportunity to take advantage of the competition.

    No one should be criticised for using the veto rule (unless of course it's being abused). @YAD69 doesn't veto trades here, there and everywhere and he put up a short explanation the last time he put his veto forward. The jealousy comment is unjustified and I think if coaches want to veto your trade because they don't agree with it or believe it isn't in the spirit of FU then they're justified to do so and shouldn't have to see posts like this about them for using a rule that's there to be used for the betterment of FU.
     
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  19. Tylo

    Tylo Moderator

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    @fresh if jealousy isn't the reason, I'd like to know what is? Surely 'the spirit of FU' isn't to force coaches to de-list players rather than use them to improve their draft position?

    You mentioned 'an avenue or opportunity to take advantage of the competition'. My concern is if coaches can simply 'veto your trade because they don't agree with it' we run the risk of alliances forming where coaches start voting together as a group to keep other coaches down.
     
  20. fresh

    fresh Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you ask the coach who vetoed what their reason is.

    The comp has run for 4 years and not one trade has had to be ratified. Only one trade from memory was close. You've had just one veto (I don't recall any of your trades ever receiving a veto) and you're calling this coach "jealous" and that "they need to have a good hard look at why they're not happy". In my view that's an unjustified personal attack in a public forum over something fairly trivial. That's my main gripe with your post. In my eyes you've gone overboard and should get in touch via PM to sort things out with him. No one should be subject to a personal attack like that for expressing their opinion when there's absolutely nothing wrong with their post.

    I have vetoed a trade before. Insider got a great deal for Trengove. Was it because I was jealous and had resentment towards him because of what he negotiated for himself? No. I can't get jealous of someone I don't know and haven't met but I am impressed by his negotiating skills. Trades that coaches make here don't make the list of top 50 most important things in my life and are not so important that they would cause me to be unhappy in my life let alone cause me to be unable to sleep. Had you written a post outlining your reasons for the trade rather than including the personal attacks then we wouldn't be on here responding to each other.

    The word veto popped into my head last night when I saw your post but was going to think over it this morning. Am I going to be subjected to the same attack if I do veto it?

    Going forward, perhaps you're suggesting that we put some sort of definition around why use a veto as I can't see this in the rule? Maybe this will appease your concern that a veto should be used where a coach believes the trade affects the integrity of the competition or something like that.

    In the extremely highly unlikely event that you or someone comes up with a table of when they can be raised, such as a value placed on picks and players and how much overvalue/undervalue can be tolerated in a trade then the definition will remain subjective and you're just going to have to accept them as part of keeping FU real.
     
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