Me either, after Walesy posted that I went back to check my timeline, my issues revolved around his commentary on Utopia a few weeks later.
Probably why I had the memory that I was originally happy with the call, but ended up disappointed.

Not going to post them here as they are genuinely inflammatory.

Hopefully he plays next week and the issue is dead.

We have a brutal history, one that extended to as recently as Goodes' mother being stolen by the government.

I kinda felt his comments were fair given the circumstances.

As a nation, we've made great progress, but man, there's still a long way to go.

Nah, this one I believe
http://www.smh.com.au/national/with-utopia-john-pilger-wrings-the-heart-but-objectivity-is-not-his-forte-20140208-328wr.html

There is no denying the past, but ours isn't all that unique.
Throughout the time frame referred to the world was mired in slavery, war, invasion, piracy, genocide and all manner of other good stuff.

Somewhere else, and it's not in this article, there was a reference or an interview where these events of the past were linked to the present. The inference I took, rightly or wrongly again it's just one opinion, was that he felt that I personally should be ashamed and sorry for what was done in the past, and that somehow because I wasn't (part) aboriginal myself I wasn't a real Australian.
Bugger that, I have enough issues of my own to be atoned for without being burdened with the crap of ancestors I never met.

It's definitely not a pleasant part of history, nor was the treatment of the Irish by the British, the virtual extinction of many American indian tribes, the treatment of the jews by Hitler, and countless other awful historical truths all of which I am just as much or just as little to blame for as the treatment of a people by people I've never met and don't miss.

I'm Australian and I am happy to celebrate that with anyone else who calls themselves one, I don't care what race, colour, religion, sex or turtleneck they favour, they just have to love Australia, respect each other and be happy to be here.

I'm also Bougainvillean and happy to celebrate that with anyone else who is, the people abandoned on the island over 20 years ago to fight alone against the PNG government and their hired mercenaries (funded by Australian aid) are also trying to come to terms with their past, I recommend 'Mr Pips' to anyone interested. That's a far more recent and real example to me than the stolen generation, I was born after that misguided bullshit ended, I've never knowingly been a racist in my life and so have no personal reference at all to it.

I can read a history and feel sorrow for a people as I do with the Australian aborigines, but I have absolutely nothing to be sorry for and I don't really care who thinks I should. That was the bit that annoyed me, if I get a chance I'll look tonight and see if I can find the actual reference, it was only a couple of weeks after the one I have linked I'm sure.


We are a long way off topic though, the central message should be stop booing without just cause you turds.

If just cause applies to Goodes then boo him, but racists hiding behind a convenient excuse are pretty bloody low and cowardly.

No doubt, he is a public figure and often quoted and probably just as often quoted incorrectly.

Long post incoming.

Thing is as I see it, this article is at best naive and encouraging collective bullying. There's no delicate way to describe it.

It's selfish to look at this solely through the scope of *I* and it's unrealistic and not feasible to talk or address the motives of 100,000's of fans specifically one by one who turn up every week so problems with generalisations again, come down to selfishness because it's taking the argument down to a personal level rather than looking at it at its broader context.

There are things you just can't deny. If you do, then this conversation is pointless, as you've already closed your mind off to listening. Events that have happened (marked >>)

>>Goodes was the one who stood out for pointing out a racist slur again him during a football match in 2013.

What on earth is wrong with this? He didn't, nor could you expect him too, know the details of the person who did it. He called out something that deeply offended him (as it should), and affected him for the rest of the game. It's not a trivial matter and not one you can say should just be swept under the carpet.

>>Goodes was awarded the Australian of the Year for what he's done outside of football and made comments about how he, and many other Indigenous Australians, view the way we celebrate Australia Day.

Addressing bigger issues that affect our country than just sport - if anyone finds a problem with that then they are clearly the 'flog'. It has no relevancy on how people should conduct themselves in relation to what happens on the field.

>>Goodes is the player who did a goal celebration inspired by the u/16 Boomerang kids and in tribute of - during Indigenous round

Again, there is nothing in this that should upset any rational person, or be the cause of such backlash and widespread booing. Players have done worse things as goal celebrations and their infamy was either short-lived and certainly not never a constant stadium of boos.

>>Goodes is the only player in the last 2 years to be booed at such a level in the aussie-rules State every time he gets the ball during games.

That means EVERY player comparison people try to use is a false equivalency logical fallacy. Much in the same way the 'But I don't boo other aboriginal players' is a racial false equivalency argument. Because not even 'Player Y who dives' or Player X who's unsportsmanlike' gets the level of vitriol thrown at them for what they do as what is directed at Goodes so it doesn't hold up as an excuse.

So can't you see how your article appears to be a list of excuses trying to rationalise why all the booing has now suddenly started up. All this type of talk does is help give everyone who's booing because of mob-mentality or naked racism the perfect means to hide behind. Because no one is going to suddenly exclaim that they're racist, not even the idiot who was evicted last week admits that - so why suddenly must an act of racism be defined by what the accused thinks is racism? That's exactly what Dawn Fraser tried to do after her comments on Kyrgios/Tomic. It just doesn't work like that, there's no sense to it. If it did we'd still be in the dark ages of early-colonialism mentalities.

It's not about your right to boo, it never was to start with. If you're not booing Goodes because of racism, you're booing him to help racism. The end result right now is the same. That is why it has to stop. It's been explained to death. It doesn't matter if you're of a (very small percentage) that used to boo him because this or that, because there is no way that ALL the people who are doing it now WERE doing it BEFORE. It stopped being about anything football related when suddenly large amounts of the crowd decided to boo him over what is non-football related reasons.

There is a part to this where you can blame 'everyone' in the crowd collectively as a group because it's the 'everyone' hive-mind/go-with-the-crowd/herd mentality etc that is fuelling all this and allowing those who harbour clear racist ideals to hide themselves amongst the ignorant. There's clear evidence of this, in the way the West Coast guy tried to palm it of by saying 'everyone' was saying stuff (or worse stuff). From the way those in the crowd acted against the person who reported the incident. If there really was no racial element involved then why was it only one person that reported? How is it acceptable that one person was the only one that did anything out of a whole stadium? How is it acceptable that the person not accepting racist insults being thrown at a player, then felt forced to leave because the crowd around turned onto them? What sort of mentality is that that victimises those who should be applauded? This is what we're dealing with, not just the act of an individual booing.

The AFL here, have clearly also dropped the ball as well. This has built up like an avalanche for at least two years now, not overnight. Imagine if Leroy Jetta hadn't stood up in defence of Goodes last weekend, then we'd still have no action. How token indeed must 'Indigenous Round' be to the games administration, when it's clear the general populous seem to fail to grasp what it's all about and they have so many figureheads speaking out so freely against Goodes. For all their women-beating and scandals, even the Rugby codes don't have a problem like this.

It should also be noted that racism isn’t just a simple thing that you can easily define by looking in the dictionary. It’s not just the overt obvious stuff that stands out, it’s complex and can be seemingly benign and be institutionalised and ingrained it a society. There is also a fundamental difference between being racist and being a racist. Which is sometimes lost when people rush in their attempts to be defensive.

So in summary, try to not see the issue from your decision to boo, which leads doesn't address the problem at all. Try to see the issue with the context of what happened, the background of events, from how Goodes' feels, how other people who are affected may feel and try to understand. It's the only way football will get past this ugly situation.

Easiest thing to do is just +1 Hornsy here.

We all benefit in some way by getting to live in a country and making a living on the blood of thousands of people who died simply because they were in the way. We get to go to work, have fun, use public infrastructure, access services that a large percentage of the relatives of those involved in the genocides aren't able to get because of the legacy of these actions.

You think it doesn't have any to do with you, or that you're not attached in any circumstance to those events of the past, then you're not accepting reality. If you don't feel any remorse, then you must be a very cold person.

If you've never been racist in your whole life, then wow, you must be an amazing person that's completely above and beyond current day society. Because I've never met such a person, and I'm including the dude in the mirror in that.

If you think the Stolen Generation was just something that happened in the past, then how do you explain the level of indigenous children taken into state custody that is a high as it's been since back then? That is very real.

The NT Intervention (covered in detailed in Utopia) actually happened and it's affects are very real today.

The imminent forced closure of indigenous communities by the WA government is very real.

These things don't happen in a vacuum, we all play some part in affect the society we live in.

'Treat everyone as you would like to be treated by them'.

It just doesn't seem that hard, does it. Great post.

No I think it will be the spotlight turned to Jetta particularly in the absence of Goodes. If he doesn't get booed I'll be shocked.

Similarly long reply.

I'll try to respond to your points in order to reduce confusion about what exactly I'm referring to.

You can make inferences and have differing interpretations of what I have said, as is your right, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are correct. The vast majority of the points you make may well be right, but reading back through my article I can't see anywhere that I even mentioned anything about them.

How is it selfish to look at this from a perspective of 'I'? I can't address it from the collective point of view as I am not the collective, I am simply me. The only perspective that I can have an honest and accurate position on is mine. Anything else would be pretentious at best. It's fine to look at the broader context but that's not something that I can accurately speak about, so I haven't.

>> Yes Goodes was the person that pointed out a racist slur against him. Where did I either say that he wasn't, that there was something wrong with this, or that it should be swept under the carpet?

>> Goodes was awarded AOTY yes, but where did I even mention that fact let alone how he addresses issues that aren't sporting? You are correct that it has no relevancy to how people should represent themselves on the field, but again I didn't say that it did.

>> The goal celebration is again similar, I didn't mention it once. All of these issues have relevance to what has caused this situation to reach the point that it has but this article is not commenting on what has happened previously to escalate it, it is simply commenting on the reasons some people have given me for booing Goodes that aren't race related.

>> Quite probably. Saying that every player comparison is wrong for every person though, is entirely subjective. I have repeatedly stated that I'm not trying to say that everyone who booed did it for reasons that aren't racially based, but that in people's own minds they will always have different reasons for everything. Whether you view these reasons as right or wrong doesn't change the fact that for some of the people that hold them they are legitimate.

I can see that is how you have interpreted it yes, but that doesn't have any relation to my intentions, others have come to different conclusions and the only thing I can say is that your interpretation is not my intended meaning.
Your comments on the accused defining racism are confusing for me, as racism has already been defined in general terms a decent time ago now. Yes it is a complex issue that can't be easily defined in detail but in general terms it can and has been and as the general terms are already defined, that leaves only the specific which again relates to the individuals involved. You stated previously that it is unreasonable and not feasible to address the motives of 100,000's of fans, then equally how is it reasonable to blanket them under one banner?

'If you're not booing Goodes because of racism, you're booing him to help racism.' This is exactly what I am talking about. To say that the only two reasons people can have for booing is being a racist or supporting racism, is ridiculous and inflammatory at best. I do not and have not denied that other people booing as well has assisted some people to act in a racist manner, but saying that is the only possible reasoning for doing it is a gross misrepresentation and generalisation. I mentioned in other posts to turnitups one of the people that I talked to about this issue before writing the article, how can you possibly think that you can know without having even met them that they
are either a racist or deliberately helping racism?
Here I will also refer to a comment you made in a previous post 'There's a huge amount of victim blaming in your article. If people don't want to be labelled a racist, they shouldn't do or say racist things.' Can you honestly not see the hypocrisy there? I'm not saying that their treatment is in any way comparable to Goodes' except in that they are still a victim in some way and yet you blame them for it by saying they were being racist when they booed Goodes.

(Refering to your summary here) Incidentally I am not seeing this issue from my decision to boo, as I haven't even attended a Sydney game in the last 2 years let alone booed anyone at one of them. If you are making these types of statements to the general football public then fair enough, but addressing them to me specifically undermines the points you are trying to make.

In conclusion, in my opinion you make some good points and many that have merit in the overall discussion of this issue, but the majority do not directly relate to what I have said here or the specifics of what I have discussed. By all means if you want to voice your opinions on racism in the AFL or society go right ahead, but by addressing them to me specifically you are inferring that I somehow condone or support the things that you are speaking out against. I feel that your opinions on racism in general are clouding our discussion of what I am specifically talking about in this article.
I have also stated previously in another post on this article that the booing needs to stop, and even more so now that the toll it is taking on Goodes has come to light.

Come now, let's just be contextual about it. If you turn up to the match booing a person regardless of what they do on the park that match, then you're a sad individual.

If Goodes whacked a player behind the play, I encourage the crowd to get stuck into him for the game.

2 years of increasing abuse though? I'm sorry but if Adam Goodes is considered one of the dirtiest players in the league then someone's pissing on my coat and saying it's raining.

Ryder brought on last weekend's boos by leaving, though I hope that the Bombers fans also boo Hird because he's the one in charge of the program that made him feel like there was no option but to leave.

The concern here is not the right to boo or not, but the fact that sustained booing is being targeted at someone who has tried to shine a light on racial issues shows unfortunately systemic bullying by a sport that in general doesn't have a good track record in this area.

So if Goodes does something silly, boo him. But if you boo him because you think he's a sook or petulant or 'can't take it' then you are willingly providing a cover for overt racist bullying, like it or not.

farked if anyone can find that divisive.

Going to post this, because I think it's an article like your but from the other side of the fence and it deconstructs a lot of the excuses: http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/eight-things-racists-say-to-try-and-convince-people-theyre-not-being-racist-20150731-giohbl.html

Things like trying to label booers victims, the false equivalency arguments, I have a friend who, reverse racism... etc. well I am happy to post more similar stuff on but with the literature out now and most public figureheads out there in support of Goodes, you should have no problem informing yourself on those matters .

Two things I will respond to though are specific to your reply that I've think you've misinterpreted and it's where the discussion falls down.

When I wrote about the key events of the Adam Goodes saga, it was providing a basis and context to the argument, the facts of where we are now that really can't be disputed. I never mentioned that it was specifically addressing points in your article.

Broader context is key for everything, and if you choose not to consider it than you're being willfully ignorant on the very subject your opining on, regardless of what it is. The ability to stand back and take away your emotional perspective, or even try to understand what it's like for other people, is always something that's beneficial and at the core for understanding an issue that you may have only a limited experience or perspective personally on.

The other thing that you are misrepresenting is when I claimed that you are either being racist or helping racism, two things that are not the same. If you accept the facts that this has happened based on the timeline of events posted before, then this is the only two outcomes available for the continued booing of Adam Goodes. Part of your reply seems to suggest you get this, so there should be any confusion?

So it's not inflammatory it's reality. That statement doesn't have to address people's individual reasons that they may give, because it doesn't have any relevancy to those reason because they (the reasons) don't matter here. What matters it that Goodes has been booed at an increased level with huge racial undertones and it's spiralled out of control where even if you only had a football-related problem with him, or choose now to do so for another reason, the only thing you are doing is helping the racism. Helping the bullying. Helping push a two-time Brownlow medallist out of the game.

It shouldn't have to come to that at all.

Sport is never apolitical. Never was. It doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's a bedrock of current human society and culture. You can't remove it from that.

Whilst you may have the privileged of just turning off the tv or changing the channel when it comes to racism, other people don't. Like Adam Goodes.

Adam Goodes doesn't have the privilege of turning up on a football field and it being just about playing football. It certainly never has been since 2013.

You point to polls - just because a certain opinion is popular, doesn't make it correct. White Australia policy was certainly a popular one - was that right and just about a 'fair go'?

You make your own opinion about the why's of booing, but you don't address anything about the broader context as to why he is being booed so much. There's no luxury in this conversation to do so.

It is fact that it has risen to these levels since he pointed out clear-cut racist abuse towards him, since he became AOTY, since he did his goal celebration. Do you deny these events as having happened?

Adam Goodes gets a level of booing and bullying towards him that no other player gets, not even Jack Riewoldt. That's what renders player comparisons pointless - there is no legitimate match here. It's a argument people keep trying to bring up.

You can't have a discussion about the booing of Adam Goodes without bring the 'why' he is getting so much booing aimed at him in the first place into that discussion.

No matter how much you may wish to not think about it.