ORFFA Participation Terms and Conditions

Discussion in 'ORFFA' started by Len, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    PREAMBLE
    1. No "rule" is immutable, at the end of each season a thread is to be created where rule changes can be proposed and discussed
    2. All listed "rules" exist for a purpose, it is intended that the spirit of these rules be respected at all times

    1. TEAMS
    1.1 Teams should be named after a remote Australian/New Zealand town/place.
    1.2 Squads of 28 players during competition. Cut down to maximum of 24 before each pre-season draft.
    1.3 Weekly playing sides will consist of 15 players. 4 Defenders, 4 Midfielders, 1 Ruck, 4 Forwards and 2 Interchange.
    1.4 The Interchange players can be of any position. They score points @ 100%.
    1.5 Four Emergencies can be selected. They come in if a selected player on the same line does not play.
    1.6 You can play someone in the wrong position, but they only get half the points otherwise earnt, rounded up (this also applies to any emergencies listed out of position).
    1.7 Scoring is via Supercoach, as are positions.

    2. FIXTURE
    2.1 Teams will play each other once in the regular season in an order determined by the fixture committee each year.
    2.2 Play will not occur in the 3 primary AFL bye rounds.
    2.3 Finals will be held in the final 3 weeks of the season (21,22,23).

    3. FINALS
    3.1 Final 8, knockout style over 3 weeks
    3.2 Elimination Round - The first week the Top 3 teams get to choose which team they play in the first week of the finals out of positions 5-8. Eg. 1st gets 1st choice, 2nd gets 2nd choice etc.
    3.3 Semi Final - The second week of the finals, the four prior winners playoff, the highest placed finisher in the H&A season picks their opponent and the other two play each other
    3.4 Grand Final - The third week of the finals will be the ORFFA Grand Final, being the matchup of the semi-final winners.

    4. "Draft Periods"
    4.1 The league has two drafts per year, the Pre-Season Draft (PSD) and the Mid-Season Draft (MSD)
    4.2 Each Draft Period features a Trade Period including Auctions, a Delistment Period and a Draft
    4.3 Each Draft Period will have 5 dedicated threads created; "Banter and Discussion, "Completed Trades", "Auctions", "Delistments" & the Draft Thread itself
    4.4 The PSD is held at a varying time (announced well in advance) prior to the start of the AFL season
    4.5 The MSD is held during the 3 week AFL bye period
    4.6 Each Draft Period is defined as being the time between the stated commencement of trades and the stated finalisation of lists time, all times per the ORFFA Calendar thread.
    4.7 The Draft duration is defined as being the time between the stated commencement for the Draft and the final pick being taken in that draft
    4.8 All teams must enter the PSD with 24 or less players
    4.8a A team that enters the PSD with 22 or less players may voluntarily participate in the MSD but is not required to do so
    4.8b A team that enters the PSD with 23 players must enter the MSD with 27 or less players
    4.8c A team that enters the PSD with 24 players must enter the MSD with 26 or less players

    5. TRADES
    Part 1. Ex Draft
    5.1 Trade Periods are detailed and updated here Calendar of Forthcoming ORFFA Events
    5.2 You can only trade draft picks in the 2 drafts directly ahead
    5.3 All completed trades should be posted in the relevant draft thread
    Part 2. In Draft
    5.4 The In Draft definition is as per 4.7 above
    5.5 Any trades involving players or picks in the current draft must contain an equal quantity of assets from both parties, picks in the next draft are not relevant to this statement and can be traded freely
    5.6 During the In Draft Period you can only trade draft picks in that current draft and the one immediately following
    5.7 Only live picks taken into the draft can be traded
    5.8 Completed trades to be posted in the thread by that name
    5.9 Any trades involving current draft picks must also be posted in the current draft discussion thread for immediate review
    5.10 During the draft trades are passed by one of either; 6 non participating coach’s approval, or 6 active hours between 8am and 11pm without any stated objection. Objections to be dealt with by the Trade Manager, unless he is involved/unavailable than it will be the commish.

    6. AUCTIONS
    6.1 All players or picks to be auctioned should be listed with a closing day/time.
    6.2 All players or picks being auctioned cannot be pulled before that day/time
    6.3 No asset being auctioned should be the subject of private trade negotiations
    6.4 No asset being auctioned should be used as part of a bid in another auction, until the auction of the asset has reached its conclusion/closing time
    6.5 No asset being offered in a bid for auctioneer consideration can be otherwise traded until that bid is rejected
    6.6 Once a bid is tabled the bid is live until rejected OR deemed beaten by the person conducting the auction, it cannot be materially altered once tabled.
    6.7 Stating a reserve, or a preferred return type for the auctioned asset is voluntary
    6.8 The reserve is not reached on any asset until the seller says so
    6.9 Once a reserve has been reached the seller has the option to adjust the auction length, but to no less than 48 hours, or the end of the trade period, whichever is the lesser.
    6.10 As soon as practical after receiving multiple bids on an asset the seller should indicate whom is in front, any reasoning is optional
    6.11 All auctions are final and irreversible unless via subsequent mutually agreed trade
    6.12 No bid can be conditional on outcomes not directly related to the auction at hand
    6.13 A bid can ask that other assets of the auctioneer be considered for return value adjustment within their bid

    7. VETO
    7.1 Veto does not exist to protect the deluded or the ill-informed, dumb trades are allowable
    7.2 Trades can be vetoed if 5 non-participating coaches cast a veto vote without an equal or greater number of non-participating coaches stating acceptance of the trade after 48 hours
    7.3 Trades posted on the last day of a trade period will only have until 7pm EDT, of the following day to have vetoes cast.

    8. DELISTMENTS
    8.1 Delistment deadlines will be detailed in the same calendar thread as the trade and draft dates, typically required 24 hours before the draft starts.
    8.2 Player delistments are to be detailed in the Delistment Thread created for the current draft
    8.3 Team size limits apply at the start of each draft period, if these limits are not achieved via retirement or trade than the required number of players must be delisted
    8.4 Once a player has been posted in the delistment thread he is delisted, retractions are not allowable

    9. DRAFT
    9.1 Each Draft will have two dedicated threads, the Draft Thread for player picks only and the Draft Discussion Thread for discussing and disparaging those taken picks.
    9.2 Each live pick is taken in the order detailed in the Originating Post of the Draft Thread
    9.3 Each pick selection should state the pick number, player's first & surname and the AFL team he plays for
    9.4 Coaches are required to ensure that the player selected is available first. Onus is on the coach to pick an available player
    9.5 If an ineligible player is picked and subsequent selections are made by other coaches prior to its discovery their selections will stand
    9.6 The coach that made the error will have to pick from the available pool at the time.
    9.7 Available players are as detailed in the OP less any picks taken since the last list update
    9.8 If for some reason two people manage to legitimately pick the same player, resulting from timing around a scheduled pick and a skipped pick, the post with the earliest time stamp is the one who keeps him.
    9.9 Each coach will have 18 hours to make their selection, after which time that turn is skipped, if they have not posted by the time any subsequent picks come up each pick will be given at least 6 hours and then also skipped
    9.10 Skipped picks can be taken at any time, please state in the post that it is a skipped pick along with the standard pick info
    9.11 All coaches are required to "Watch thread" the Draft Thread via the ts interface, with or without email is a preference choice
    9.12 All coaches are required to provide to the commish a secondary means of contact, email or mobile or both as preferred
    9.13 Coaches that repeatedly slow the draft process should expect good natured abuse, and even some not so good natured
    9.14 At the end of each draft all teams will have a squad of 28 AFL contracted players

    10. ROUND THREADS
    10.1 Each ORFFA Round will have a dedicated Discussion and Banter thread, the OP will contain a copy of the Fixture Committee’s posted detail for that round
    10.2 Most rounds if not all have a theme, celebrating that theme in any positive manner is encouraged
    10.3 Each coach posting their week's team in the discussion thread is expected but not mandatory
    10.4 There is no minimum participation requirement for the weekly threads, but the more activity we have the healthier the league, be at it
    10.5 The Review Manager ensures a weekly round review is written up using a roster of willing scribes, willing scribes are awesome by imperial decree

    11. ROLLING LOCKOUTS
    11.1 Other than applicable at 11.2 all Thursday game weeks will have a rolling lockout which becomes full lockout at the start of the Friday game
    11.2 Easter weekend, ANZAC round and any other brain fart the AFL has that extends a weekend beyond the norm shall have lockouts applied per the Fixture Committee advice

    12. LOOP-HOLING
    12.1 During standard rounds with a rolling lockout due to Thursday games it is possible to enable a previously played emergency score
    12.2 You must name a player in every slot on a line to activate an emergency, an empty slot will not activate an emergency, by design
    12.3 It is not allowable to name a player not listed to play that week IF the coach has a player listed to play at the league lockout whom could have been named in that slot without leaving another playing slot empty instead. It is not required that coaches should have to play OOP to fill the slots, but if a full team of players listed to play AFL (including extended benches not finalised by lockout) can be named it must be done instead of utilising a non playing member for that week.
    12.4 There may be a need to alter this approach by instance (round) for rounds listed at 11.2

    END OF YEAR ITEMS
    (Weeks immediately following the ORFFA Grand Final)
    13. RULE CHANGES
    13.1 A thread will be started inviting coaches to propose any rule changes for the upcoming season
    13.2 Rule changes require a 2 thirds majority to pass

    14. LEAGUE ROLES
    14.1 A thread will be started asking for nominations for commish and expressions of interest in all league roles, these roles are vital to the smooth running of the league and participation is encouraged
    14.2 Roles are:
    a) Commissioner
    b) Assistant Commissioner (Can be one or two)
    c) Fixture Committee (Chair and members)
    d) Trades Manager
    e) Drafts and Lists Manager
    f) Reviews Crew (Chair and members)
    g) State of Origin Originator
    h) Rising Star Star
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
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  2. Bandit

    Bandit Moderator Staff Member

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    Good work Len... can I suggest a small edit

    9.1.1 Any disparaging remarks made to a coach by another coach who feels he has been robbed of a star player because of that pick will be expected to have an obligatory ‘get stuffed’ comment
     
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  3. anthak

    anthak Moderator Staff Member

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    Good shit, Lenh!

    One issue I had is at 3.3 with the gendered language:
    I suggest changing that, but other than that, love your work!
     
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  4. TerryinBangkok

    TerryinBangkok Moderator Staff Member

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    Wunnerful.

    I know, I know - end of the season, but shouldn't the first round of finals be 4 vs 4? Otherwise one of the teams in 5-8 is there for no reason and how can there be "four" prior winners? Maybe a typo.
     
  5. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    1 chooses
    2 chooses
    3 chooses
    4 has no choice but still has an opponent
    4 games ergo 4 winners

    No typos ;)
     
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  6. TerryinBangkok

    TerryinBangkok Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, maybe say this, or 4th team has remaining opponent just to make it clear for geriatric idiots such as myself or lesser mortals who think 3 + 1 = 3. :rolleyes:

    Or maybe if you stuck it all in a spreadsheet it would be easier to auto-follow :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
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  7. That KI Guy

    That KI Guy Moderator Staff Member

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    A thing of beauty, mate.
    Cheers
     
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  8. Lenny120

    Lenny120 Active Member

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    Good job Len! Just in relation to 7.1; why do vetos exist then? I assume it is to stop coaches from potentially trading without the eye to benefit their own team, and instead for fraudulent reasons?
     
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  9. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    It's not black and white, and open to interpretation
    If I were to trade Joel Garner to Tracey for Sloane, that should be seen correctly as collusion and vetoed.
    It's not only ludicrously imbalanced but would also have pronounced tinges of collusion, if not an outright statement of it.
    That's the easy example.

    Some trades are necessarily imbalanced or they wouldn't happen, ie you don't give up an elite player easily and getting them seemingly requires what could be perceived as overs.
    If someone spots a genuine burgeoning talent yet to be exposed in another team they (I) might also be inclined to pay what would appear to be overs.
    We have had a few trades queried in our 7 years, but none have actually gone to veto, though one was altered in recognition that it seemed unjustifiable.

    I think the main reason we haven't seen any is there is a recognition that there has to be an option for coaches to negotiate terms acceptable to each other and it's very hard to define value of picks and players against each other as they represent something different to everyone else.

    Therefore the wording was used quite deliberately to indicate that we are not required to licence trades as being "equal", but the option remains on the table should "overt silliness (drunkenness?)" or (hopefully never) cheating be agreed to have occurred by a significant number of coaches so as to have a trade vetoed or materially altered, not withstanding everything I've already said.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
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  10. Lenny120

    Lenny120 Active Member

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    Thanks for the response Len. I guess I’ve always been one to think since it’s our own team, we surely can trade whichever way we see fit to benefit our own team without other coaches denying that ability.

    I think vetoes should only be available when a trade is identified as being completely absurd (like the Sloane to Garner you mentioned), where it’s either blatantly obvious of cheating or a very heavy night on the drink, otherwise it’s denying the ability of coaches to trade on their own terms for what they perceive is the best option to their team at that time.
     
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  11. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    I agree entirely :)
     
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  12. graeme

    graeme Well-Known Member

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    Top work Len - well done. I would like to foreshadow a change; as it related to the post-sseason period perhaps airing it now makes sense? The key drivers behind this proposal is to try and equalise team lists and to maintain interest in ORFFA throughout the year.

    Proposal
    That ORFFA introduce a third draft to be held at some point between the afl grand final and the afl draft. The third ("post-season") draft would not be a compulsory darft, participation would be optional.

    The rationale is this. Go to ORFFA in the TS leagues and click on the free agents button. See anyone you think you would like to add to your team? Yep, I though so. We already have a post-season trading period, but no there is no access to the FA list until the pre-season draft. The post-season draft would be a litlle speculative in that Champion Data would not have announced SC positions for the following year. Each manager would need to balance that risk against an extra opportunity to strengthen their list. The subsequent pre-season draft may well become more a "rookie draft." The managers of lower placed teams would get two drafts in which they hold early picks to rebuild before the following season. The framework for trading existing drafts would roll across the post-season draft.


    @Len - perhaps a new thread to maximise exposure? I wanted to leave that decision to you.
     
  13. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    Happy to facilitate and end of season discussion on it mate, I can do the stats when I have more time but my intuition tells me that free agents make up a minority of PSD draft selections, somewhere in order of15% though higher in the last round.
    An aligned alternate but similar proposal might be a single round (18th to 1st)of non tradeable priority picks from the free agent list only prior to the PSD that's purpose is lo lift the lower teams up more immediately than a #1 draft pick might.
    Worth discussion for sure
     
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  14. Bandit

    Bandit Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't mind the idea of 1 pick for everyone... non tradeable. I assume you wouldn't need to delist a player until the PSD ie: you carry 29 for a couple of months in the off season (if you so choose)
     
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  15. Bandit

    Bandit Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, now I think about this, I am going to change my mind to being ambivalent on it.
     
  16. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    I am also ambivalent, was purely meant to create a discussion point at seasons end.
    I like the idea of shaking things up, as long as it doesn't compromise the integrity of the league
     
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  17. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    @graeme I would like to offer my 10c on your proposal to try and equalise team lists and to maintain interest in ORFFA throughout the year.

    I support the concept of enhancing existing equalisation measures, the extent to which must of course be limited to the extent to which higher teams are willing to give up existing and future advantages inherent in the status quo. Possible measures are almost unlimited.

    As for maintaining interest I think equalisation obviously has the potential to help significantly because it gives greater short term hope although I expect that that some will lose interest over time in any case (including those who already have) and adding an extra draft of mostly fringe best 15 talent to me is unlikely to change this very much at all.

    As to the specific proposal I would not be in favour as i think it duplicates the nature of the MSD and would for example allow the premier to offload a retiring veteran and replace them with a promising young Free Agent without compromising access to the 18th best youngster in the following PSD. I would counterpropose that any 3rd draft should be limited to teams who win 5 or less games (perhaps in consecutive seasons) - ie teams who are already terrible and need a major injection of young talent (perhaps 2 players rather than 1 as mentioned). In any case I would prefer such priority picks be provided in the PSD proper as end of 1st round selections rather than as a separate October/November draft.
     
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  18. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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