Lenh191 wrote: Your kidding right? Jobe Watson 2013, 19 games avg 111.5 Dayne Beams 2013. 7 games avg 102 Watson 2012 22 games, 122 avg Beams 2012 21 games 121 avg Both have at least 3 years at the level before any youth payout materialises for master Beams. They are 50/50 at best, and the picks create an inbalance. all I want to know is where are you guys' minds when I propose deals like this... Do you think Watson will average 120 as a 32 year old, who was the last 32 year old to average 120? Beams will be way above Watson in 3 years time. I proposed the deal, not Lenny.
Bandit wrote: So 5 years means you cough up a first and second round draft pick for a 3rd? I would have thought if you were looking for long term success then you would have kept a first and second round Fitzy? I will keep it short, draft is a gamble, Beams is a very, very safe bet. I don't want to create beef. All i want is clarification. No arguement, The vetoes required, and trade commish to tell us what we need to do to make the trade right. In my opinion, I like the deal, so does Lenny, in my opinion thats all that matters, but if the majority of league disagree, then thats fine I am happy with the deal as it is and would not like to change it, but if majority think I am going to suffer with this deal, then lets here it Thank you and goodnight
Fitzy wrote: Bandit wrote: So 5 years means you cough up a first and second round draft pick for a 3rd? I would have thought if you were looking for long term success then you would have kept a first and second round Fitzy? I will keep it short, draft is a gamble, Beams is a very, very safe bet. I don't want to create beef. All i want is clarification. No arguement, The vetoes required, and trade commish to tell us what we need to do to make the trade right. In my opinion, I like the deal, so does Lenny, in my opinion thats all that matters, but if the majority of league disagree, then thats fine I am happy with the deal as it is and would not like to change it, but if majority think I am going to suffer with this deal, then lets here it Thank you and goodnight hear, not here that is all
Fitzy wrote: Lenh191 wrote: Your kidding right? Jobe Watson 2013, 19 games avg 111.5 Dayne Beams 2013. 7 games avg 102 Watson 2012 22 games, 122 avg Beams 2012 21 games 121 avg Both have at least 3 years at the level before any youth payout materialises for master Beams. They are 50/50 at best, and the picks create an inbalance. all I want to know is where are you guys' minds when I propose deals like this... Do you think Watson will average 120 as a 32 year old, who was the last 32 year old to average 120? Beams will be way above Watson in 3 years time. I proposed the deal, not Lenny. Jobe is 28 As I said there is a 3 year gap between current and possible variances diverging.
Fitzy - chill out champ. There's a minimum number of coaches who need to veto a trade before it is overturned and you're nowhere near that yet. I might be wrong, but as far as I can tell your trade has had 1 veto. Others appear to have expressed an opinion, as is their right, without actually exercising the option to veto. Hardly a reason to get pissy about it. And, as stated earlier in this thread, a coach can veto for whatever reason they want. Like it or not, they don't have to justify that decision.
'Do you all have something against me? Bama, Bandit? I can tell Chels and TiB do at the moment as well. Seems like I am the new Collingwood of ORFFA' What I have Fitzy is disappointment that you did not follow the sort of conventions I expect from my fellow ORFFA coaches - nothing more. IMO, the trade is a little unbalanced but no more so than others that have been consummated. I have far stronger emotions about (say) AndrewDemetriou who for mine by expressing his opinion on everything under the sun is on the verge of bringing the AFL, if not the game, into disrepute. One instant case is the commentary on Dustin Martin's 'salute' and then his 'advice' to Dustin re the latter's decision to exercise a right to talk about his next contractto other clubs as well as Richmond, Another instant case is his vehement denial of any possibility that the AFL would drop charges against Doc Reid prior to the AFL dropping the proceedings. I am intrigued by how some leader writers seem to be finally questioning the role of the AFL and by inference Demetriou's role.
Fitzy I have nothing against you at all. I think the trade is lop sided but that's your choice and I did not veto it. This isn't the only trade I think has been lop sided. It might be just me but I don't trade away my guns easily as some of you would know! Good luck with the rest of the trade period all, I'm closing up shop until the trade period in the new year when we know more details about next years game and players.
I believe the trade is within the spectrum of acceptability. In my opinion, and it's probably not a popular one, Jobe Watson has 2-3 of seasons averaging 100-105 left in him and he will be finished. He also may receive a suspension between 6-24 months. Unlikely, but he might. It hasn't been ruled out. Beams could average 115-120 Champion Data© points for the next 5 seasons. Pick 9 sweetens the deal significantly, however it required sweetening. Maybe a round 2 pick would have sufficed, and leave out the others. In regards to the 'C' bomb (collusion), I wasn't aware of a relationship between Fisty and Lenny. However if coaches want to eliminate that factor, a simple IP address check from Señor Walesy could be performed. Then all doubt is removed, unless they are living in the same apartment and sharing a personal computer or laptop, which is a legal right in Australasia, maybe not in Thailand.
Fitzy/Lenny, this is nothing against you two... I think the deal is incredibly lop sided because of the trades that have been thrown in. Over the next 3 years the players will average the same, there or thereabouts. Beams is never going to average 130 (GAJ), especially in a midfield containing Pendles, Swan, Sidebottom and Seedsman and Thomas coming through. So I would have thought that players and the inclusion of a first or second (probably second) round on Fitzy's side would have been adequate. Which means that the first round for a third round pick makes absolutely no sense to me. Especially when you are trying to hit a premiership window in 3 or 4 years Fitzy... why would you give up both a first and second rounds? I stand by my veto... but hey i am only one voice of 16
After viewing some of the trades that have gone down over the past little bit, I really do regret volunteering to throw in my second round draft pick as part of the trade I did with Grav. Nothing personal against Grav of course - but geez, I could've held onto the draft pick and used it - stupid me for thinking that might show some level of integrity or something. I'll learn next time. In the meantime I have fewer problems against this trade because of the very real possibility that Mr Watson may be banned anyway. Big stories in the Australian today about ASADA planning to bring the banhammer down on Essendon officials and players after the finals, with infraction notices on their way. If I had Essendon players, I'd be divesting my interest in them about now. As for the trade - Watson is much older than Beams ... the draft picks added in probably go too far the other way to compensate. But all that could be completely thrown into chaos if Watson is banned. Take Watson out of the deal and perhaps the trade doesn't look so bad after all. I think it is a risky move trading any Essendon player right now. But that's your call. I don't believe there is collusion here, so I'm not going to veto. Like I said though, bugger throwing in that second round draft pick as part of my deal.
And just for the fun of it - my first round pick is on the table for a good to very good young midfielder. I may even bung Mr Foley in as part of a trade to help provide depth - 1st round pick and Mr Foley for, say, second round pick and good midfielder. If it is of interest, PM me and we can discuss.
chris88 wrote: After viewing some of the trades that have gone down over the past little bit, I really do regret volunteering to throw in my second round draft pick as part of the trade I did with Grav. Nothing personal against Grav of course - but geez, I could've held onto the draft pick and used it - stupid me for thinking that might show some level of integrity or something. ......................... Like I said though, bugger throwing in that second round draft pick as part of my deal. FWIW Chris, and I appreciate it's not much, I thought it was the act of a gentleman negotiator and it would have been ideal had some others followed suit. Nothing wrong with being honourable though I can imagine it is 'sticking in your craw' right now...
chels wrote: Lenny120 wrote: Wagga Wagga and Venus Bay have come to terms: Wagga Wagga receive: Jobe Watson, #9 & #31 Venus Bay receive: Dayne Beams & #47 It is this sort of trade that makes me wonder whether to continue in ORFFA. A coach offers a player for trade; an initial open offer is made and enthusiastically accepted; time is sought to consider the possibilities and my reply 'Take your time bro, take your time.' Then an email to say sorry mate I forgot about your offer, the deal has already been posted. Yes, I am annoyed - at the lack of empathy, honesty and respect. 'Lover's remorse' perhaps? I do not think so, I am not sure where the embryonic deal might have lead and neither is the other coach. I can understand your concerns Chels.
bama wrote: Fitzy I have nothing against you at all. I think the trade is lop sided but that's your choice and I did not veto it. This isn't the only trade I think has been lop sided. It might be just me but I don't trade away my guns easily as some of you would know! Good luck with the rest of the trade period all, I'm closing up shop until the trade period in the new year when we know more details about next years game and players. Thank you Mr. Trade Commissioner. Big help.
anthak wrote: Beams is a fair bit younger; still has improvement in him. Not to mention the current investigation happening in relation to Jobe. Main thing is, in 4 years time Watson will be on the way out, whereas Beams will still have a few good years in him. The trade is clearly unbalanced. Can't you see that ant? Beams has way more tats than Jobe.
'In regards to the 'C' bomb (collusion), I wasn't aware of a relationship between Fisty and Lenny. However if coaches want to eliminate that factor, a simple IP address check from Señor Walesy could be performed. Then all doubt is removed, unless they are living in the same apartment and sharing a personal computer or laptop, which is a legal right in Australasia, maybe not in Thailand.' Bereft of insight here I am. Fitzy and Lenny are mates. Nothing wrong with that. I can only imagine an IP check if it was thought they are one and the same person and I don't think anyone is suggesting that. And the IP check would not be conclusive anyway. I recall such procedure being mooted for Philosoraptor when we first started this gig and recall wishing at the time that talk of IP checks would not raise it's head again. I mean, Chris and Jen most likely live under the same roof and perhaps at times share the same computer. Where is the harm in that? Laptop dancing never took off in Thailand. They have other things.
bama wrote: Fitzy I have nothing against you at all. I think the trade is lop sided but that's your choice and I did not veto it. This isn't the only trade I think has been lop sided. It might be just me but I don't trade away my guns easily as some of you would know! Good luck with the rest of the trade period all, I'm closing up shop until the trade period in the new year when we know more details about next years game and players. I thought we all agreed to use the term lob sided instead of lop sided?
.... I mean, Chris and Jen most likely live under the same roof and perhaps at times share the same computer. We have in fact decided to live separately during any and all ORFFA trade periods.
Wow you come back after a couple of days awol .... Can I bring peoples attention abck to a TC? lol Its not an awful trade, is it lopsided for no reason? yes, but its not veto worthy IMO. Some coaches may regret these deals in later years though. Iron Knob remain calm during the storm making casual enquirers with respect and integrity on the side but yet to pull the trigger on anything! Might be slow malicious cunning or might just be slow.
Lenh191 wrote: chris88 wrote: After viewing some of the trades that have gone down over the past little bit, I really do regret volunteering to throw in my second round draft pick as part of the trade I did with Grav. Nothing personal against Grav of course - but geez, I could've held onto the draft pick and used it - stupid me for thinking that might show some level of integrity or something. ......................... Like I said though, bugger throwing in that second round draft pick as part of my deal. FWIW Chris, and I appreciate it's not much, I thought it was the act of a gentleman negotiator and it would have been ideal had some others followed suit. Nothing wrong with being honourable though I can imagine it is 'sticking in your craw' right now... Chris, an admirable act on your part and a show of utmost integrity. Given the debate and discussion at the time, your addition to the deal, affirmed what many were thinking that the scales needed a bit of leveling. Appreciate that you were by no means obliged to sweeten our deal, but I (and hopefully most coaches) respect your genuine efforts to uphold some higher trading ethics.