The Uglies and The Packers have agreed on the following trade: The Uglies trade May, Blicavs and pick 45 to the Packers The Packers trade Gawn, Matty Boyd and Nick Riewoldt to the Uglies
bama wrote: The Uglies and The Packers have agreed on the following trade: The Uglies trade May, Blicavs and pick 45 to the Packers The Packers trade Gawn, Matty Boyd and Nick Riewoldt to the Uglies VETO! Didnt think I'd veto a trade ever, but two 100+ players irrespective of age being traded for nothing of consequence is bordering on ridiculous.
ChiefRussell wrote: bama wrote: The Uglies and The Packers have agreed on the following trade: The Uglies trade May, Blicavs and pick 45 to the Packers The Packers trade Gawn, Matty Boyd and Nick Riewoldt to the Uglies VETO! Didnt think I'd veto a trade ever, but two 100+ players irrespective of age being traded for nothing of consequence is bordering on ridiculous. Interesting that the argument that valuation is subjective and age is important has finally hit what could be calledreductio ad absurdum. For mine I have watched in disbelief at the trades that elicited nothing but an occasional veto. As Chief notes this one is almost off the scale of unbalanced; something akin to GAJ for a round three pick.
<p style='line-height: 12pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;] Veto. I have to agree with ChiefRussell and chels, this trade is massively unbalanced in favour of the Uglies.
I've got no problem with it. Raptor obviously doesn't like his chances for a flag this year, and this two may, quite possibly be retiring at the end of this season. May as well get something for them now before getting nothing at the end of the year. Sure, he may have been able to get more elsewhere, but he was dealing with Bama and that's what they worked out. I've got no issue with it.
bama wrote: The Uglies and The Packers have agreed on the following trade: The Uglies trade May, Blicavs and pick 45 to the Packers The Packers trade Gawn, Matty Boyd and Nick Riewoldt to the Uglies I am amazed that I can't get trades over the line sometimes.. This breaks down to; a 21 YO Ruck avg 67 to a 22 YO ruck avg 67 a 30 YO Fwd avg 105 to a 21 YO fwd avg 59 a 31 YO mid avg 104 to Pick 45. It's not even youth vs age.... I'm not vetoing it and maybe the 48 hours has passed anyway, damn TS clock shows Greenwich time to me, but it seems at least as odd as some that have generated 10 to 20 posts, maybe people have already packed up for the summer......
ChiefRussell wrote: bama wrote: The Uglies and The Packers have agreed on the following trade: The Uglies trade May, Blicavs and pick 45 to the Packers The Packers trade Gawn, Matty Boyd and Nick Riewoldt to the Uglies VETO! Didnt think I'd veto a trade ever, but two 100+ players irrespective of age being traded for nothing of consequence is bordering on ridiculous. I'd say you couldn't be more wrong. They are 2 players that averaged 100+ in 2013. Points will now be scored from 2014. Then 2015, and so on. They will not crack 100 next season, and could go as low 85. I also think they will most likely struggle with injury, in what will be their final season, and miss games. If you think Steven May and Mark Blicavs are 'nothing of consequence', then you don't watch Suns and Cats games.
Lenh191 wrote: bama wrote: The Uglies and The Packers have agreed on the following trade: The Uglies trade May, Blicavs and pick 45 to the Packers The Packers trade Gawn, Matty Boyd and Nick Riewoldt to the Uglies I am amazed that I can't get trades over the line sometimes.. This breaks down to; a 21 YO Ruck avg 67 to a 22 YO ruck avg 67 a 30 YO Fwd avg 105 to a 21 YO fwd avg 59 a 31 YO mid avg 104 to Pick 45. It's not even youth vs age.... I'm not vetoing it and maybe the 48 hours has passed anyway, damn TS clock shows Greenwich time to me, but it seems at least as odd as some that have generated 10 to 20 posts, maybe people have already packed up for the summer...... Yes, it is youth vs age. Riewoldt to May. Boyd to Blicavs. Gawn to pick 45.
dmandrews wrote: <p style='line-height: 12pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;] Veto. I have to agree with ChiefRussell and chels, this trade is massively unbalanced in favour of the Uglies. I'd say it's unbalanced in favour of me.
anthak wrote: I've got no problem with it. Raptor obviously doesn't like his chances for a flag this year, and this two may, quite possibly be retiring at the end of this season. May as well get something for them now before getting nothing at the end of the year. Sure, he may have been able to get more elsewhere, but he was dealing with Bama and that's what they worked out. I've got no issue with it. Thanks Ant, I have no problem with it either. Seeing as you mentioned it, I'll discuss if I could have got more for these players. Firstly Riewoldt and Boyd have been on the block and in trade discussion all period. They are listed on my team page as available. The best offer I received was Rhys Palmer for Boyd and Kane Lucas for Riewoldt. I don't really rate those players, and they have less potential than the 2 I received. Secondly I offered them in various trades to various people, and this was the best deal I could muster. Most had no interest in them, due to their age. Thirdly if I didn't offer them to a team, it's for one of 2 reasons.. either no one really caught my eye or you had stated you didn't want old players. So if anything I should be lauded for getting a 21 year old forward/back loaded with potential, a ruck who improved every game and IMO has a great future, and pick 45 in return for 2 players nobody wanted and have one season left, plus a ruck that I don't rate whatsoever.
chels wrote: As Chief notes this one is almost off the scale of unbalanced; something akin to GAJ for a round three pick. Absurd.
Just to let you all know Raptor came to me with the trade, I was more than happy not to trade anymore. The reason why I traded was I have a very young list and some of those young players like Anderson and Menzel will probably only average 65ish the next few years. Someone like Roo and Boyd will fill the void for hopefully 2 years. I also like Gawn as a big tall pure ruckman, Blicavs is more of a utility I think. As I said Raptor came to me with this exact trade and i accepted.
I have absolutely no problems with this trade. Raptor loaded up a little bit over the past 12 months with mature players as his window was open for a flag. Not to say he didn't have youngsters, but he had a very unbalanced team in that a lot of his mature players were within a year or 18 months of actually retiring. I traded for Kane Cornes from him and swapped a young player to him because he needed youth and I needed mid coverage.This trade just continues Raptor's drive towards young players and a retooling of his squad after not quite being able to get a flag this year. This in fact is the sort of trading that a good solid keeper league encourages. There will always be teams with a tilting toward older players - and the ability for them to leverage something for those older players before they retire is a key. This is where trades like this come into play. Personally I applaud any team that is willing to shed its veterans in this way to take a chance on youth. It is the absolute bedrock upon which keeper leagues are built - and I'd even go so far as to say that this sort of trade is a reason why we don't need to be delisting 6 players come February next year ... if this type of trade is done even semi regularly, it encourages player movement around the league as well as real critical thinking on how people can shape their lists. Boyd missed a lot of footy this year with 'old man' injuries. I know this because I traded him to Raptor, who, unfortunately, saw him have no luck with injuries. Riewoldt had a great year - but really he has maybe one more great year left in him ... if the injury gods are kind, if StKilda don't go with youth, if etc etc. May is a developing prospect, Blicavs is an athletic headless chook with potential. Gawn is Melbourne's third string ruckman but one who could move up the depth charts depending on Roos and Jamar. The short and long term benefits of this trade are starkly clear. Both teams go in with their eyes open. Bama gets immediate help while giving up a slice of the future. Raptor gives a a big slice of 2014 to build towards 2015. Congrats and good luck to both of you. And Raptor - if you have any other older players you are looking to shed, we could chat.
Raptor wrote: Lenh191 wrote: bama wrote: The Uglies and The Packers have agreed on the following trade: The Uglies trade May, Blicavs and pick 45 to the Packers The Packers trade Gawn, Matty Boyd and Nick Riewoldt to the Uglies I am amazed that I can't get trades over the line sometimes.. This breaks down to; a 21 YO Ruck avg 67 to a 22 YO ruck avg 67 a 30 YO Fwd avg 105 to a 21 YO fwd avg 59 a 31 YO mid avg 104 to Pick 45. It's not even youth vs age.... I'm not vetoing it and maybe the 48 hours has passed anyway, damn TS clock shows Greenwich time to me, but it seems at least as odd as some that have generated 10 to 20 posts, maybe people have already packed up for the summer...... Yes, it is youth vs age. Riewoldt to May. Boyd to Blicavs. Gawn to pick 45. You just shuffled my deck For me this is you saying, 'I have no chance next year and I am rebuilding'. Given you finished 6th that's surprising and prior to this trade I wouldn't have thought it the case.. Thus my amazment.
My view is contrary. Raptor touted NRoo to me in a very good offer. My first reaction was to jump at it, then I did some homework. If I had taken NRoo and Boyd and, a big if, they performed to circa 100 in 2014, I might have jumped a place or two on the ladder. Then at the end of season 2014 I would have had two players with absolutely no currency. That is why I did not proceed with the trade, in addition to NRoo carrying a managed injury. After what happened with Cross at the Doggies their policy is clear and the writing is very much on the wall. I think Raptor did well to get anything for these two guys while they still had some residual value. Where they would have possibly been very handy aces in the hole is one of the top 4 teams. /Portals/0/User%20Images/fairtrade.jpg
I agree Terry that from your perspective (and mine) they would be horrible ins, I have also been offered played over 28 and rejected them without thought. I am though surprised that Raptor feels he has to abandon challenging for next year now. The alternate approach would have been to keep them to bolster this years attack and then delist them at the end of the year having extracted 12 months of value from them, I am not sure that Bicavs is that much better than Gawn, and May's scores this year were hardly headline stuff... Next years draft is supposed to be very good for KPP.. I certainly don't see it worth veto, but worthy of discussion I am up for, I like discussion, it keeps the blood pumping in the ORFFA arteries
Sounds like you guys think i'm an idiot for bringing in 2 older players, my reasons were: 1. I have a very young list and it's getting hard to delist players so next year if they retire it will help me with delistments. I still think they will both average over 90 easily which is a lot better than most of my current forwards and Boyd will sit nicely on the bench. 2. Steven May was going to be delisted anyway 3 I think Gawn is a better prospect than Blicavs 4 Pick 45 is speculative, who knows who is going to be around. The trade will serve its purpose for me and i'm happy with it. My best team for next year is looking something like this: Def: Waters, Hartlett, Ellis, Buntine Mids: Cotchin, Sidebottom, Bennell, Wingard Rucks: Leuenberger Fwds: Martin, Rioli, Clarke, Riewoldt Inter: Viney, Boyd As i said these players will fit in nicely for a year or 2!!
I have no query with your position bama, as I intimated above I think what you gave up can be replaced at the following draft & you effectively get the 12 months value that Raptor has given up.. Given we are allowing teams to remain bloated at 24 at draft time a couple of extra old guys is hardly going to destroy the balance of the squad..