2019 AFL Womens Comp Details Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'ORFFW' started by TheTassieHawk, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    As per the recent blog post we are keen to see if an AFLW based comp can be up and running for 2019

    If you haven't already joined please do so asap at http://tooserious.net/forum/threads...anchises-please-register-interest-here.90305/

    This is the place to kick around some ideas about all of the key stuff like scoring, team and squad size, drafts, trades, annual forced delisting, fixtures, finals etc etc etc

    Key dates depend a fair bit on the AFLW fixture so here is the link
    http://www.afl.com.au/womens/matches

    Please note this OP will be edited as required to reflect key decisions as they are made

    Go for it
     
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  2. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    TTH’s thoughts and proposals part 1

    At this stage AFL Fantasy and Draftstars seems to be the most used scoring system around the traps. BigFooty has an AFLW based comp that has used a different formula which would require upload of a wide range of stats then calculation based on that formula. I reckon the simplicity of a single number suggests that AFL Fantasay/Draftstars is best for us in 2019 but propose that we revisit this via an annual preseason majority vote if alternative mainstream scoring systems present themselves.

    I propose holding 2019 roster season for 8 to 10 teams over 5 rounds then a 2 week 1v4, 2v 3 semi-final and grand final series. I would also suggest that from Round 2 onwards the roster may be based on a Winners of previous matches format rather than predrawn matchups which reduces the likelihood of teams benefiting from an easy draw or someone finishing 5th with 4 wins and 1 loss and missing finals. If we only get 6 teams then we should play a full round robin then play 2nd vs 3rd in a prelim with minor premiers getting the week off or play a 6 round season with the top 2 playing in the Grand Final.

    I am keen to exclude all Rookie listed players and players taking the year off (regardless of the reason) and will propose that deem these players as INACTIVE and all other players as ACTIVE. The reason being that this allows for either expansion or equalisation in 2020 if either is required.

    For a variety of reasons I think it would be better to go for something similar to the TS Addicts format with teams of 8 (2D-3M-2F-1R) but with 2 emergencies named to cover all 4 lines instead of 1. Hopefully we can use TSleagues but otherwise it will be by posting teams on blogs or spreadsheet based. Teams of 15 ORFF* style could be considered but in my opinion would make the draft process a logistical nightmare for anyone who isn’t prepared to commence the draft in the first week of January, unless we end up with only 6 teams. This could also be revisited annually by majority vote.

    My proposal is that as usual with TS comps half points would apply for any out of position players including emergencies that get a late call up. One adjustment (subject to ease of TSleagues coding) would be that I would propose that on field dpp players can be shuffled as needed before the emergency takes the place of the player who they replace and also that the first named emergency (Emergency) 1 is called up before the second named emergency (Emergency 2) except where Emergency 2 is called up instead of Emergency 1 if this means that there is no out of position penalty needed but there is if Emergency 1 is called up for Emergency 1).

    I am personally not a fan of switching players in and out of squads every week of the season per the Addicts and other draft type comps unless there is a very low limit to transactions and this be accompanied by a rule that players must have been on the roster continuously from week 4 (or earlier) to be eligible to play finals.

    If the above is adopted I would recommend that we each draft 15 ACTIVE players per team in the inaugural player draft. Subject to 2019 AFLW player positions being known (presumably from the 2019 AFLW prospectus or other sources) the draft could start on January 11 and be finished by January 28 (Australia day weekend) or earlier. All ACTIVE players would be eligible to be picked however each team would be limited to a maximum of 3 R-eligible players including dpp.
     
  3. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    TTH’s thoughts and proposals part 2
    I also propose that the inaugural draft would be a bonsai draft where the random Team 1 to Team 8 order for Round 1 is reversed (Team 8 to Team 1) for Round 2, then the reversed order (Team 8 to 1) is repeated in Round 3, before reversing each round thereafter in regular snake style meaning that there is a reduced advantage to those teams with the first 2 picks in the first round.

    Round 1 AFLW teams will be named on Thursday 31 January. At that stage an optional supplementary preseason draft takes place, first in best dressed so that teams aren’t starting 3 to 4 players short going into the season. Any players in the 15 player squad can be replaced by an ACTIVE Free Agent provided that
    · the new player is aged 21yo or older as at January 1st 2019 and is named for Round 1
    · the replaced player is not named for Round 1
    · the team does not exceed the maximum of 3 R-eligible players.

    Post Round 3 there will be a midseason draft commencing at 6pm on Tuesday 18th February and concluding by 11pm on Friday 22nd February. It would be run on reverse ladder order as at Round 3. Team lists expand from 15 to 16 players so the draft is compulsory and teams can also choose to delist one of their 15 players by 9pm on Monday 17th February if they wish to select a 2nd player in the second round of the midseason draft. Once again any selected player must be aged 21yo or older as at January 1st 2019 and the team must not exceed the maximum of 3 R-eligible players.

    In January 2020 (and subsequent seasons) teams would be allowed retain a maximum of 9 players (with a maximum of 2 R eligible players). Teams would be able to nominate one player as an INACTIVE LISTED 10th player if they are sitting out the 2020 AFLW season The Preseason draft would be based on reverse ladder order after finals to take their lists back to 15 (or 16 for teams with a nominated INACTIVE LISTED player) for the first half of the 2020 season, with the 3 R eligible players restriction applying inclusive of INACTIVE listed players. There would be no supplementary draft in future seasons and the midseason draft would always be 2 weeks prior to finals commencing (ie 4 weeks before the end of the AFLW season) and would be limited to players aged 21 years old or older as at January 1st.

    I would be happy for trading to be allowed prior to Round 1 lockout each season including 2019 provided that trades involve players only so we don’t need to track changes to the normal draft order. Trades prior to the preseason draft can be for uneven numbers basis (ie 2 for 1, 3 for 2) but those after the inaugural draft or preseason draft until Round 1 lockout would be 1 for 1, 2 for 2, 3 for 3 basis only. Trading would not be allowed at midseason.

    As always this always sounds much more complicated than it will be in practice so feel free to shoot holes, spitball alternative ideas, ask for clarification and give feedback on which parts actually make sense and have support. If I have overlooked something important then please let us know ASAP. Ideally we would want to have a set of agreed principles more or less in place by 31st December and we can figure out the final number of teams we are running with a week out from the draft commencing.
     
  4. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    I think it's a well thought out approach, with regard to swapping the DPP players to access E1 instead of E2 I am assuming are you suggesting a manual process (Assuming @walesy can get a scoring system working)?
    Uploading the players may be an issue if we are limited to one DB here (NFI if we are), if not an issue though I'd suggest we use ts to name and manage the teams even if scoring does have to be done off site.
    Would love it to be integrated and 100% agree on the addicts approach for teams listing, as well as the other limitations you have suggested around that.

    Great stuff as usual mate :)
     
  5. anthak

    anthak Moderator Staff Member

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    I think I’d prefer redraft each year, rather than keeper.
    But I don’t really mind either way
     
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  6. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    While I remember this is the AFLW Draft Stars scoring formula
    Kick = 3 points
    Mark = 3 points
    Handball = 2 points
    Goal = 6 points
    Behind = 1 point
    Tackle = 4 points
    Free Kick For = 1 point
    Free Kick Against = -3 points
    Hitout = 1 point
     
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  7. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    The main outstanding detail for season 2019 will be determining player positions.

    Based on 2018 I suspect that the 2019 AFLW prospectus will be out a few weeks earlier than Draftstars (which may have only launched a few days prior to Round 1) and other fantasy comps. As a reminder the prospectus lists players as Def (Def-Gen or Def-Key), Mid, Mid/Fwd, Fwd (Fwd-Gen or Fwd-Key) or ruck.

    With 6-8 teams of 8 onfield there should be enough DEF's and Rucks for everyone but be aware that Draftstars had more dpp types - ie SBT was F/R in Draftstars but F only in the 2018 prospectus.

    With large enough squads then the likely lack of flexibility of the prospectus positions per the 2019 edition shouldn't IMO be as much of an issue but if others feel strongly we can look at alternatives prior to commencing the draft.
     
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  8. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    @Len @That KI Guy @anthak @Jason @dmandrews @FreoDockers

    If we end up with 7 teams rather than 8 then we can assemble an 8th team by rotating drafting duties amongst the other 7 teams with each coach making 2 or 3 picks on behalf of the 8th side.

    Alternatively we can run a 7 team draft and designate all Carlton players as non draftable - ie reserved for Team 8. Upon completion of the 105 picks we can then by concensus build the 8th team with 6 to 10 of Carlton's best players as well as the best undrafted players from the other 9 AFLW sides.

    Please let me know which approach everyone prefers if we fail to reach 8 teams by midweek.

    Whichever way we go about it if the 8th team proves to be slightly weaker in 2019 it should be much better than having a bye. Importantly the side could be made more competitive in 2020 with possible equalisation measures such as first access to the likes of Daisy Pearce , Jess Allan and Chloe Molloy who will both miss the 2019 AFLW season..
     
  9. Jason

    Jason Moderator Staff Member

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    Did we decide whether this would be a keeper league and, if so, what percentage of lists would be kept from one season to the next?

    I'm not clear on this yet, which is making it tough to answer your post above TTH about our preferences for how to handle an 8th team.

    If we are to keep more than say two thirds of our squads into 2020, then I would favour the Carlton-excluded 7 team draft and reserve the Carlton players for the 8th team. However, if we are only keeping less than two thirds of our squads (or not keeping any?) into 2020, then I think I would rather we just had a bye during 2019.

    My preference would be a new draft for 2020, but I'll play whichever format is agreed on.
     
  10. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    I believe we are looking at keeper by weight of support with a low but undefined (at this point) keeper rate.
    Team entry will be via ts and eventually scores but manually processed for now.
     
  11. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    Indeed this was the basis for the proposed model given at the time there were 2 stated preferring a keeper league and 1 either/or, with my unstated preference for a keeper league adding to the argument to go that way

    Now that @FreoDockers and @Jason have stated a preference for an annual redraft it is effectively 3-2 with KI Guy happy either way and Anthak not yet being clear (unless I am missing this in the thread somewhere).

    On that basis and for a variety of reasons I would propose that we now instead go ahead with a 2019 only draft rather than a keeper league.

    Then hopefully at the end of this season we can gather enough extra interest to establish both a keeper league and a draft-every-season league or make an informed decision as to which type of league we want in 2020 and beyond.

    I am not keen on a 7 team option whereby teams would play 4 matches and have one bye over 5 weeks before finals. As an alternative playing a 7 team roster over all 7 weeks without finals may be better.

    However 6 or 8 teams would be easier and allow for a grand final. If we are doing a one season only comp then we could perhaps have an 8th team which scores the average of the other 7 teams however I much prefer the other earlier proposals of drafting an actual team (however this is achieved).

    Let's make a final call on this by 10pm Tuesday (if possible) as this will allow some clear air prior to commencing the draft at the currently scheduled time.
    @Len @dmandrews @FreoDockers @That KI Guy @Jason @anthak
     
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  12. Jason

    Jason Moderator Staff Member

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    A few posts up from yours...
     
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  13. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    I am happy to take this year as a once-off "proof of concept" deal.
    If we work out a way to draft an 8th team to run dummy it will still have to be managed every week so there complications at both ends of it.
    Given it is a trial run perhaps make Carlton the 8th team, we can't draft from that team at all, agree on a best 15 from it and just let it sit with injury management only? Also should not be eligible for finals.
    I have the draft sheet ready just need to add in the players once we have a final list to activate the lookups etc
    Also missing three teams names assuming the 4th is "Carlton"
     
  14. TheTassieHawk

    TheTassieHawk SC fanatic Staff Member

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    We already have 5 teams named, I would prefer the 8th team to be the Ceduna Blues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_West_Football_League to keep with the "Outer Regional" Theme. I would be happy to manage the 8th team off the side of my desk, except the week I play against it. Agreed it will not be eligible for finals unless we find another owner prior to Round 1.
     
  15. dmandrews

    dmandrews Well-Known Member

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    Long-term my preference is for the Too Serious AFLW comp to be a keeper league, however I don’t have any issues with 2019 being a one-off season as @TheTassieHawk has suggested and @Len has supported. With the AFLW expanding from 10 teams to 14 teams in 2020 it probably makes more sense to start an AFLW keeper league in 2020 and avoid issues if we started a keeper league in 2019 and then expanded the league later on.

    How many rounds are in the 2020 AFLW fixture is likely to impact how many teams we think should be in our TS comp. Having a stand-alone season in 2019 will give coaches in the league more time to consider how lists, league rules etc, should be structured. A year down the track more coaches might be interested in participating in a TS AFLW comp.

    Thanks for all your work on getting this TS AFLW league up and running TTH.
     
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  16. anthak

    anthak Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks everyone for sorting this out.

    Though, I don’t understand the idea of using only Carlton players for the spare 8th team. I must be missing something about it.
     
  17. Len

    Len Cockburn Knightrider Staff Member

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    I was looking for simplicity but may have overthought it, ironically.
    Should be simple enough to draft a team as we go, I've had a quck chat with TTH and we will set it up for that in the event we don't get an 8th coach in time
     
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  18. anthak

    anthak Moderator Staff Member

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    That sounds good. I wasn’t referring to just you tho Len. I think there were a few who’d mentioned the Carlton thing, and I didn’t understand why
     
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